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Mk3iain

New Defender, not a bit military

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The new Slovakian "Defender 90" made its debut this w/e at the Goodwood revival, its actually over 100" wb,...Looking at it alas its just another SUV posemobile, its more of a "Pretender", ..Its Not a Defender replacment vehicle for work use, Price wise it starts at about £40k almost Twice the Price of a 4x4 Ford Ranger/Mitsubiski pick up ! ...the body style is much like a swb Toyota RAV 4, or an overgrown new Mini Clubman, the 90 has 3 doors it can squeeze in 6 persons,  be a bit cosy together for 6 adults..and that then leaves only enough room at the back for the Harrods picnic hamper too, No luggage space with back seats in use,..Lots of posh trim and plastic interior, for more room there is the 110, 5 door version,  all round independent suspension, the Defender range is ONLY Available as an Automatic Transmission, there Is No Manual gearbox option !  and it is full of electronics, ..35 ECU's to go wrong, even the foldaway towbar is electrically operated, ...and you Cannot take the roof off this Alluminium monocoque bodyshell either or drill holes in it to fit a NATO hitch

Edited by Nick Johns

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END of line , because it is a monocoque ,  therefore much more car and less truck.

Possibly Land Rover Co.  should have taken the bit more than loose change £  that ISTR  Ratcliffe had offered for design rights and existing tooling ,  it may not all come to an end when his  total  DIY  ProjeKt Grenadier arrives ,   now that the badge name  verging on cult status is now meaningless for ex-works new.

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Did see a dutch ad they are priced from 94.000 euros for the basic version. Who would buy that?  You can get my house for that price.

Edited by Citroman

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"If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it".  And you might add, if you have to ask how much time this bit of kit will spend in the garage being fixed, don't buy one!  [Based on L/Rs dire reliability record for its current and preceding models].

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There was talk in 2016 that the old Defender would continue to be built in Afrika  but not for sale in the EU, US etc. I don't know what became of that idea. 

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29 minutes ago, rambo1969 said:

JLR have gone for what will make them money, and I agree with them.

Only if they can sell them.

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1 hour ago, rambo1969 said:

JLR have gone for what will make them money, and I agree with them.

I wish JLR well and I love their products, mostly. But to promote this as the next incarnation of their most iconic and original product is at the least a disappointment if not a insult.

Why could they not call it what it is, a Discovery HD or XD or whatever. Then promote its virtues and it may sell better. But then I'm not paid millions for my marketing genius. 

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On 9/13/2019 at 8:10 PM, johann morris said:

Somewhere I have read that JLR is for sale and that either Peugeot or Renault are interested but it might just be rumour.

 

 

The French have already acquired more than enough of the traditional UK motor industry already first what once was Hillman, Humber, Commer etc then recently Vauxhall.

As to JLR back in time the Land Rover was the work horse vehicle and when introduced the Range Rover for the country gentleman and lady.

For economy of scale logical to have within reason a common mechanical platform but with the focus on a work horse vehicle at a competitive price for both the retail and military markets.

The low sales of the old Defender are quoted but how price competitive was it?

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I don't know how you could ever find that out, I suppose only LR know that for certain but an employee told me that they were told, LR only made 500% profit on the old Defender. last night as I was trying to find out how many unsold vehicles LR currently have in stock I came across this article that makes interesting reading.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/why-jaguar-land-rover-losing-money-and-how-it-plans-return-profit

160812041_profit207.jpg.22c91b9de35016836482145637eeb941.jpg

The poor buggers only make £60,000 profit on every top of the range RR sold.

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There is a load of £rap talked about British MOD contracts for such as the Wolf XD being too small to interest manufacturers.

When there was a need (Balkans deep mud  ISTR)  for military ambulances , then the Pinzgauer was actually manufactured in the UK along with more GS models and IIRC 6 wheeled versions (and many will still be in service).  Possibly the Pinz style would meet what the Defender XD offered.  This avenue will still be open as well as Jim Ratcliffe's Grenadier ProjeKt

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1 hour ago, MatchFuzee said:

What thoughts on the Ibex?

Nice - very, probably not a alternative to a Defender ,used to be manufactured near Thirsk  ISTR but since Y2K on a farm near Hexham , production problem there.

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Last one for me, I have just found this picture of the boot space with the seats up.normal_IMG_20190913_222343_01.jpg.4abb68c4d2ef755833517b9ab0aaef48.jpg

You couldn't even get the shopping in there.

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Projekt Grenadier is moving on with news yesterday of a new factory in Bridgend and more announcements.

http://view.grenadier.ineos.com/?qs=4bb3c267797198fc67e10a5e74ddfecbe8648c231799b337bf40103600d7bcefaaa59614d5c3497ba263db1b4591953d7c162b7edc99e0b329ecdcad495015458633b1e63fd8a6f5

 No mention of military sales as a target but you never know.

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3 hours ago, Mk3iain said:

Projekt Grenadier is moving on with news yesterday of a new factory in Bridgend and more announcements.

http://view.grenadier.ineos.com/?qs=4bb3c267797198fc67e10a5e74ddfecbe8648c231799b337bf40103600d7bcefaaa59614d5c3497ba263db1b4591953d7c162b7edc99e0b329ecdcad495015458633b1e63fd8a6f5

 No mention of military sales as a target but you never know.

Lets hope that it works better than their web site, all I get when I click on any of the links is a blank page.

 

Jon

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1 hour ago, Surveyor said:

If I am reading it correctly the Land Rover Monthly test drivers think is great

 

1 hour ago, Surveyor said:

If I am reading it correctly the Land Rover Monthly test drivers think is great

I am sure that L/R monthly would hardly wish to criticise JLR!  Look elsewhere for objective review, I think.  If its in line with the grown up Range Rovers and Defenders I am sure it will perform very well when its working and be superbly designed for its intended market............and break regularly and expensively to languish in the clueless hands of LR dealerships.  

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JLR seem to have gone very Prissy about  the comments on the New Defender- With the DNA of the original! Don't seem to like the suggestion that what they really have is a Mutant Strain.

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On 9/19/2019 at 1:57 PM, matchlesswdg3 said:

 

I am sure that L/R monthly would hardly wish to criticise JLR!  Look elsewhere for objective review, I think.  If its in line with the grown up Range Rovers and Defenders I am sure it will perform very well when its working and be superbly designed for its intended market............and break regularly and expensively to languish in the clueless hands of LR dealerships.  

Problem is with the money well known personalitys are being paid to promote the vehicle you won't see a bad review. The first time a dashboard light comes up, say three weeks after purchase, the value will halve as you couldn't afford the main dealear cost of turning it off.

Edited by Tony B

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I understand that as well as LWB and SWB "premium" market versions, a commercial version will be offered at about £10k less than the cheapest Chelsea tractor version.  Still auto box......as, apparently, will be the proposed Grenadier 4x4, based on BMW powertrain.  And why not; autoboxes are v good these days and technology has moved on way beyond porridge stirring.

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On 9/16/2019 at 4:54 PM, johann morris said:

Last one for me, I have just found this picture of the boot space with the seats up.normal_IMG_20190913_222343_01.jpg.4abb68c4d2ef755833517b9ab0aaef48.jpg

You couldn't even get the shopping in there.

Ah..but todays Urban warrior  4x4 driver has the shopping delivered

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I had hoped that when LR launched the new Defender the price of the older models would come back down to earth but now that I have seen the Pretender I don't think that is going to happen any time soon.

 

Jon 

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