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Alan

War and peace - thoughts so far

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If early bird registrations for a show were £0 and late comers £50 would that help WPR or other big show?

Also would a quota of types also help?  So me included, might too many Land Rovers be a burden (except in a LR anniversary year) or if they have no great historical past such as those LRDG type 'pinkies'?

Does the registration team care if the types of vehicle booked in are of any particular interest to the public?  Do they share their concern with the management that not enough armour or rare vehicles or booked to attend?

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Land Rover's light weights or otherwise are entry level vehicles by which new members of M.V groups hone their skills while acquiring the funds to move on should they wish to other types so by limiting the numbers are you saying we're not interested in your vehicle we only want the expensive exotic types. I can remember when Jeeps were considered in the same vein as some people now view Land Rovers. All ex-military vehicles have an equal place on the rally field its not an exclusive club denoted by bank balance.

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1 hour ago, Baz48 said:

Land Rover's light weights or otherwise are entry level vehicles by which new members of M.V groups hone their skills while acquiring the funds to move on should they wish to other types so by limiting the numbers are you saying we're not interested in your vehicle we only want the expensive exotic types. I can remember when Jeeps were considered in the same vein as some people now view Land Rovers. All ex-military vehicles have an equal place on the rally field its not an exclusive club denoted by bank balance.

Agreed, but as an organiser of another military show, common feedback from the public is "too many Land Rovers".

Andy

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3 hours ago, andym said:

Agreed, but as an organiser of another military show, common feedback from the public is "too many Land Rovers".

Andy

The public think any 4x4 is a 'jeep'.
As a long term landy owner, I feel limiting landy numbers is snobbish.
The land rover is the most used MV all over the world, therefor, there will be more in private hands.
There is room for all of us in this hobby.

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23 hours ago, rambo1969 said:


As a long term landy owner, I feel limiting landy numbers is snobbish.
The land rover is the most used MV all over the world, therefor, there will be more in private hands.
There is room for all of us in this hobby.

As someone who hasn't been without a leaf-sprung Land Rover - civvy or military - since 1989, I'll second that. The British Army has used Land Rovers from 1948 to the present. Some people see them as 'entry level' vehicles because they are the only 'readily available on a budget' military vehicles these days, others have them for ever. 

If people exclude entry level vehicle owners from shows, shows will be smaller, traders will be fewer due to reduced footfall, things will be more expensive because those who make the numbers up will take their money elsewhere  etc etc. etc, insert the interminable discussion here.

On 10/14/2019 at 3:15 PM, LarryH57 said:

  So me included, might too many Land Rovers be a burden (except in a LR anniversary year) or if they have no great historical past such as those LRDG type 'pinkies'?

 

Just wondering, do all those 82AB Hotckiss M201s have a 'great historical past'?

 

(I should add that I have had an 'Americanised' Hotchkiss and am not picking on them specifically, merely using another group of vehicles to illustrate the difficulty of supporting one group of military vehicle owners at the expense of another). 

Edited by Jolly Jeeper

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Wading in here... I would never support stopping anyone who owns anything from turning up to any event. My entry level was a spartan off eBay. I love it and love taking it to shows (when I can ) and would never support anyone or anything that would stop anyone from having the same joy and pleasure... having said that I did mention spending £600 to bring it to W&P and then paying entry does seem a slap in the face

 

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On 10/28/2019 at 2:24 PM, Baz48 said:

Land Rover's light weights or otherwise are entry level vehicles by which new members of M.V groups hone their skills while acquiring the funds to move on should they wish to other types so by limiting the numbers are you saying we're not interested in your vehicle we only want the expensive exotic types. I can remember when Jeeps were considered in the same vein as some people now view Land Rovers. All ex-military vehicles have an equal place on the rally field its not an exclusive club denoted by bank balance.

Totally agree.    A MV show is to entertain the respective rivet-counters and Joe public , as well as offer motoring history and general education enhancement for those who wish.

Lurking within those lines of Lightweights , you may find a correctly presented FFR with a Unitary Radio Kit equiped with Larkspur or Clansman - that alone is now very rare.  You may even find a fully Winterized Lightweight correct in all detail - one of those is like the proverbial ,  I think it is still the case to view the only  Lightweight VPK - then a trip to a show in Northern Ireland will be needed.  

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I have found on Many Occasions. That any unwanted 'Input' from Rivet counters. Usually opens to discovery, that they in the Main. Dont even Own an Ex Military Vehicle!...… 😎

I was also amused on one occasion, to overhear an 'Expert' Telling His Wife. 'Oh Yes, these were used in the desert in WWII'. With regards to an Austin K9 Radio Truck, & also a Saracen. That were parked up next to Me at a show once!....Excellent 'Entertainment' I thought at the time.  But. Because it was so hot on that Day. I really couldn't be bothered to 'Bait' him. & elicit even more rubbish that would have undoubtedly have emanated from his Mouth!...🙄

Edited by ferretfixer

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Selling poppies with the Ferret on sunday I overheard someone say "look at the army jeep". I kept my mouth shut!

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I’m astonished an organiser of a MV event thinks it’s alright or imply it’s acceptable to limit the numbers of a particular mark of vehicle entry to a-non specific MV event because members of the public think there are too many of a type. Explain to me why was the comment noted was it in response to a question from an organiser or was it unsolicited from someone who paid to enter or someone’s mate in on a freebie. Why are they described as public are they different from the person using that word. Does it mean those who have parted with hard earn cash to enter a field full or hopefully full of green machines (other colours are available) and be entertained possibly educated and leave feeling the money parted with was worth the expenditure.

I go to a few shows, not many these days I don’t own an ex-MV anymore I have and do assist when asked with MV events and have done for a while. The question of too many of one or other types of vehicles attending a show has been around for as long as I can remember along with what is authentic true to type or someone’s interpretation of an idea or grainy photo.

Recently in conversation with the chairman of the organiser of a show mentioned someone  said they had too many Land-Rovers at a recent show, his comment ‘Fine maybe we’ll make a feature of them next time’ and isn’t that the point make something of the numbers of a mark not discourage. I worked on my first ex-MV in 69 I’m still working on them now I helped organise an MV show in 76 when the late Bart H. Vanderveen was our commentator and judge and have worked on shows almost every year since I’m pleased to say not one of the organisers limited a particular type of vehicle all were and are welcome

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On 10/30/2019 at 4:02 PM, Baz48 said:

I’m astonished an organiser of a MV event thinks it’s alright or imply it’s acceptable to limit the numbers of a particular mark of vehicle entry to a-non specific MV event because members of the public think there are too many of a type. Explain to me why was the comment noted was it in response to a question from an organiser or was it unsolicited from someone who paid to enter or someone’s mate in on a freebie. Why are they described as public are they different from the person using that word. Does it mean those who have parted with hard earn cash to enter a field full or hopefully full of green machines (other colours are available) and be entertained possibly educated and leave feeling the money parted with was worth the expenditure.

I go to a few shows, not many these days I don’t own an ex-MV anymore I have and do assist when asked with MV events and have done for a while. The question of too many of one or other types of vehicles attending a show has been around for as long as I can remember along with what is authentic true to type or someone’s interpretation of an idea or grainy photo.

Recently in conversation with the chairman of the organiser of a show mentioned someone  said they had too many Land-Rovers at a recent show, his comment ‘Fine maybe we’ll make a feature of them next time’ and isn’t that the point make something of the numbers of a mark not discourage. I worked on my first ex-MV in 69 I’m still working on them now I helped organise an MV show in 76 when the late Bart H. Vanderveen was our commentator and judge and have worked on shows almost every year since I’m pleased to say not one of the organisers limited a particular type of vehicle all were and are welcome

Please don't put words into my mouth. The comments we have received are both unsolicited and from organised feedback.  I didn't say what, if anything we may or may not choose to do about them.

Andy

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I think if space is limited & vehicle applications are oversubscribed, then some people wanting to display a vehicle will be disappointed.

So in that situation it seems reasonable that organisers would restrict entries so that there was not an excess of any one type. This is what has always happened at GDSF & seems to give a good spread of MVs of all types.

PS I speak as one who has been excluded from a show because "I just had a Land Rover."

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1 hour ago, andym said:

Please don't put words into my mouth. The comments we have received are both unsolicited and from organised feedback.  I didn't say what, if anything we may or may not choose to do about them.

Andy

It is my interpretation on the post, 

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2 hours ago, fv1609 said:

I think if space is limited & vehicle applications are oversubscribed, then some people wanting to display a vehicle will be disappointed.

So in that situation it seems reasonable that organisers would restrict entries so that there was not an excess of any one type. This is what has always happened at GDSF & seems to give a good spread of MVs of all types.

PS I speak as one who has been excluded from a show because "I just had a Land Rover."

I know what you mean, We were excluded from taking the Dennis to a show once. It was a WW2 show and they didnt want any WW1 stuff. Funny.  

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As the person who originally suggested limiting Land Rovers numbers for MV events (including mine) I must apologise for stirring up a bit of a storm! 

So I won't pick on any such MV types, but instead suggest that an MV show might be thought of as an open air exhibition; if so would the public turn out if they knew most of the exhibits were going to be nearly all the same?

Also as a Lwt owner I do appreciate that there is snobbery in MV shows, and I'm ready to accept that anyone who turns up with WW2 tank or Cold War armour is always going to be a top attraction.

Edited by LarryH57
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9 hours ago, LarryH57 said:

As the person who originally suggested limiting Land Rovers numbers for MV events (including mine) I must apologise for stirring up a bit of a storm! 

So I won't pick on any such MV types, but instead suggest that an MV show might be thought of as an open air exhibition; if so would the public turn out if they knew most of the exhibits were going to be nearly all the same?

Also as a Lwt owner I do appreciate that there is snobbery in MV shows, and I'm ready to accept that anyone who turns up with WW2 tank or Cold War armour is always going to be a top attraction.

This does raise the very interesting question of "who is an MV show for"?  If it's just the owners, why not just find a field somewhere to meet up?  If it's for the public then surely it must take into account their interests?  It's not snobbery, it's rarity value and therefore attractiveness to the paying public.

Andy

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As I have been restoring MV for a long time all WW 11.  And some rare ones .I am about half way restoring  a 1950 series’1 Land Rover . Witch is more of a challenge than some of the WW11 trucks  . I hope to take it to any show  as it still part of our history of transport 

53E3E1CE-C75C-4C09-8E74-2ECD5CFFE428.jpeg

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6 hours ago, GTB MAN said:

As I have been restoring MV for a long time all WW 11.  And some rare ones .I am about half way restoring  a 1950 series’1 Land Rover . Witch is more of a challenge than some of the WW11 trucks  . I hope to take it to any show  as it still part of our history of transport 

53E3E1CE-C75C-4C09-8E74-2ECD5CFFE428.jpeg

Very nice job! Some of the original parts are dearer than Jeep stuff too now but I'm sure you know that... PS, I've been having fun in this '53 for 20 years now (not as original or nice as yours is going to be) seen here with its early Sankey trailer 

27907971_2047694155257403_3686946548384930983_o.jpg

Edited by Jolly Jeeper
added photo

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Andy you mentioned "rarity value" but I'm not sure that is always the case.

For some 14 years I used to display a Hornet/Malkara which was very rare indeed. Strangely if I was parked next to a Jeep or Land Rover those vehicles would command more interest from the public than the Hornet.

I think the reason was people would like to own a Jeep/Land Rover, used to drive one or father used to etc whereas people would dismiss the Hornet as not real or home-made, suggesting it was built on a Land Rover asking silly questions about the smoke dischargers (not the missiles for some reason), asking if it floated & endless tapping of the armoured body. Sometimes veterans were the most aggressively dismissive stating that they served in the Army & never saw one so it clearly was a fantasy vehicle of my own making.

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4 hours ago, GTB MAN said:

As I have been restoring MV for a long time all WW 11.  And some rare ones .I am about half way restoring  a 1950 series’1 Land Rover . Witch is more of a challenge than some of the WW11 trucks  . I hope to take it to any show  as it still part of our history of transport 

53E3E1CE-C75C-4C09-8E74-2ECD5CFFE428.jpeg

This looks a very nice restoration not sure about the seating arrangement certainly a vehicle I would like to see as is at any show, I'm guessing it is an early one.

 

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4 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Andy you mentioned "rarity value" but I'm not sure that is always the case.

For some 14 years I used to display a Hornet/Malkara which was very rare indeed. Strangely if I was parked next to a Jeep or Land Rover those vehicles would command more interest from the public than the Hornet.

I think the reason was people would like to own a Jeep/Land Rover, used to drive one or father used to etc whereas people would dismiss the Hornet as not real or home-made, suggesting it was built on a Land Rover asking silly questions about the smoke dischargers (not the missiles for some reason), asking if it floated & endless tapping of the armoured body. Sometimes veterans were the most aggressively dismissive stating that they served in the Army & never saw one so it clearly was a fantasy vehicle of my own making.

It's a shame your Hornet/Malkara was so easily dismissed as not real it has always been a type I find fascinating a typically British bit of kit. A guy I know has/had the Humber 1-ton Malkara resupply vehicle with the wider aluminium rear body.

 

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49 minutes ago, Baz48 said:

It's a shame your Hornet/Malkara was so easily dismissed as not real it has always been a type I find fascinating a typically British bit of kit. A guy I know has/had the Humber 1-ton Malkara resupply vehicle with the wider aluminium rear body.

 

I think that was Kane's Humber you are referring to, I think that went to somewhere like Belgium.

I didn't mind people not appreciating my vehicles or asking strange questions as long as the they are not aggressive in their manner. I'm sorry to say I have witnessed some MV owners fly off the handle when someone has politely questioned some aspect of their vehicle & the questioner is dismissed as  their opinion or observation is not valid because they don't own a MV themselves, although owning one is no guarantee you will be listened to either!

There are actually some interesting people out there who may have intriguing insights into your vehicle, that can only come about through polite dialogue.  I have had many interesting snippets of history come to light by keeping an open mind & a cool temper.

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I think that if Land Rovers didn't exist, there would be a lot of half empty fields at Military shows and anyway Land Rovers are like Marmite, either you love them or hate them, but for me you can't beat the old ones. 

 

Jon

IMAG0055.jpg

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56 minutes ago, johann morris said:

I think that if Land Rovers didn't exist, there would be a lot of half empty fields at Military shows.

 

Jon

IMAG0055.jpg

If only !!!!!!!!  then there would be more room for real military vehicles.

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