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Alan

War and peace - thoughts so far

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After 10+ years of working at the War and Peace show as  helping hand on a trade stall, this year the boss decided not to put his stall out this year.

The organisers have put the prices up and are asking even more if you were allocated a corner pitch (with the size of the central walkway this year more stall holders would have found themselves with a corner pitch!),  We have never seen/met  the new owner, Rex was often seen walking the trade stands meeting the traders ,taking an interest.

Last year we noticed a rise in the number of kids on quads, and motor bikes driving through the trade stalls, and a return to people driving to the beer tents drinking around their vehicles and driving back to the camping fields, 

Its a hard (and now expensive) show to work that seems to have lost the fun. If you can stall at two small weekend shows its a better time than the War and Peace show 

I visited as a member of the public this year the lack of traders was noticeable  as with the sparse re-enactors field,  and even at 0905am on the first day the toilets were in a very poor state....(after driving 4 hours when you got to go...) 

looking at the website before setting off it did say that the £20 entry also included over night camping a bit of a deal for those traveling, but the website did also say camping was £30 a night,   So a "bargain" if you turn up on the day but not if you book early,

it was a similar story with the trade stalls "book early to guarantee the same pitch (at a cheaper price) "  but they kept moving the deadline, and looking at this years layout I don't think many pitches were in the same place as last year, 

I'm looking forward to the Military Odyssey show a much friendlier show, not as many vehicles but there's more every year, and they have pirates! 

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That's a shame:  when I went on Friday, the traders were saying Wed and Thursday were very quiet due to the heat but things were on the up when Friday's morning rain had cleared.  There were still good stalls to poke around so its a pity they will likely have done badly over the week.

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Skiprat reminded me re site safety, that I heard a reliable report that tracked vehicles were moving round the site without a marshal......on foot or on vehicle.  Not sure that the folk concerned quite realise the liability they are incurring here!  Same goes for kids on m'bikes and quads, I guess.  Thats a worry, really because potentially we are one tragic accident away from a ban on any site movements at shows involving MV's.  Akin to the air display saga.

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Yes there was a very large tracked armoured personnel carrier thing charging round that appeared to have no escorting vehicle or safety people preceding it.

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On that large apc, I seem to remember one last year charging around letting rounds off, and few others sneaking off to a field over the back for a play 

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I had a great week, but,

Was the quietest I have ever known w+p, even the re enactors field had spaces!
Toilets really need to be cleaned twice a day- by midday they were awful.
Severe lack of traders, was told the prices had been put up.

The living history that was there was good.

I cannot understand why the new owner does not open to the public on the sunday-it would give him more chance to take gate money if the sat is a washout.

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I guess any show has a bad egg. Even Normandy 2019 was dampened for me a touch by camping near some people who assumed a WW2 event means you can wear desert 95s and drive a fictional 109 Land Rover WMIK fantasy piece and a GS Land Rover with more aerials that GCHQ and less radios than an indigenous tribe in the Congo, vocally despise "foreigners", in France and get upset why their Land Rovers cannot participate in a WW2 vehicle run? Reminds me of the caravans and best of Ford Van's displays at modern war and peace.  I brought a military radio to display, and two RVs and a caravan!

 

I digress, but rules are rules. No Tax/MOT/insurance no movements on site! Simple as that. Enforce it, or potentially lose it all, that includes the show.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, rambo1969 said:

I cannot understand why the new owner does not open to the public on the sunday-it would give him more chance to take gate money if the sat is a washout.

For the simple reason that a lot of the MV people come from abroad and have other things to do on monday, and so sunday's visitors were greeted by a lot of empty pitches and vehicles moving out. That's why a few years ago it has been decided to start & end the show a day earlier.

 

That being said I had a great time, stayed the whole week and walked the stalls every day. Around noon I would go back to the camp and sit out the heat for a few hours in the shade, with a drink and a book or just napping and back to the stalls after that. I did notice the already mentioned decline in numbers compared to a few years ago, and I hope this is just a transition period and numbers will go up again.

Edited by earlymb

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1 hour ago, paul connor said:

some people who assumed a WW2 event means you can wear desert 95s and drive a fictional 109 Land Rover WMIK fantasy piece and a GS Land Rover with more aerials that GCHQ

Perhaps they had seen the Land Rover in Ice Cold in Alex. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, paul connor said:

I guess any show has a bad egg. Even Normandy 2019 was dampened for me a touch by camping near some people who assumed a WW2 event means you can wear desert 95s and drive a fictional 109 Land Rover WMIK fantasy piece and a GS Land Rover with more aerials that GCHQ and less radios than an indigenous tribe in the Congo, vocally despise "foreigners", in France and get upset why their Land Rovers cannot participate in a WW2 vehicle run? Reminds me of the caravans and best of Ford Van's displays at modern war and peace.  I brought a military radio to display, and two RVs and a caravan!

 

I digress, but rules are rules. No Tax/MOT/insurance no movements on site! Simple as that. Enforce it, or potentially lose it all, that includes the show.

Must admit my patience was wearing thin with a few on the campsite I was staying on near Bayeux , Normandy this year. 

I had a hook up and was on the corner pitch next the office and entrance to the bar......... (the Bar bit was handy) but every man and his dog decided it was always a good place to park when going to the Bar or site office, during the evening there was a lot drink driving, which was mainly the arseholes in jeeps, who on more than a few occasions had to park on my pitch because there jeep buddies had taken all the space up in the small courtyard next to the bar........ there was still families walking around with kids late at night, 

 I can relate to what Skiprat says about the quads etc at the W&P,  I was called an old **** last year when some obese woman with child on a quad were trying to get past me on a pedestrian part of the site, obviously my reply was very apt, "Less of the Old, fat arse" even more joy when it stalled and she couldn't get it going......... 

There is always going to be a few idiots at any occasion. 

Edited by bigduke6

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I don't believe that it is a requirement (under the new owner) to  have a marshal in front of tracked vehicles. 

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For the simple reason that a lot of the MV people come from abroad and have other things to do on monday, and so sunday's visitors were greeted by a lot of empty pitches and vehicles moving out. That's why a few years ago it has been decided to start & end the show a day earlier.


But it has made no difference what so ever, people still pull out early.

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Not been on here for a while had a few slightly more pressing things to do, War & Peace I see the comments about the show are following the usual pattern. Like it or not we all have an opinion and with rose coloured glasses looking back into the mists of time to the golden age, what golden age it will be a different point in time for each of us, my choice would be when the show was at Tenterden or the early days at the Hop-Farm with fantastic traders with good quality parts and spares you just don’t see the like of now. That said what I saw of the show this year I enjoyed. As I no longer own an ex-military vehicle I was asked by a friend to drive one of his trucks down while he drove the other. Booking in for once a doddle, helpful staff and no shouting to do this or don’t do that. Stalls, honestly disappointing, large gaps in the various camping fields and display area. Food vendor’s plentiful differing quality in offerings, the tow team professional when we blocked an exit with a vapour locked truck soon had us out of the way and running again, all with a helping hand and smiles even a handshake wishing us well as we meandered back to our plot. The drive back late on Thursday in the hail with high winds and rain interesting, apology to those who think unpleasant thoughts of those who arrive late and go early we are individuals with the choice  

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I think we all look back at the halcyon days of war and peace, but the Mv scene has moved on, back then i recall there were very few shows to go to, the biggest of course being W+P, closely followed by the national MVT show and the MVT show at south sea. Otherwise it was regional MVT (I always liked the one at Tilbury fort and the monthly militaria fair there) or steam railways which would run 40’s events.

Stalls were plentiful, plenty of NOS coming out if France and other European countries, both mv’s and  militaria, the likes of which we will never see again , at prices we will never see the likes of !

Now there are numerous shows up and down the country to go to and with many having just come back from a week in Normandy, another full week at W+P was probably too much for many, hence the reduced no’s.

For me it’s still a great show, a week camping, among like minded people and despite the decreasing no of stalls I still manage to come home with a few bits to add to the collection. 

In truth for as long as I’ve been a member of this forum and numerous other reenactment forums people have derided the show, the location (why the south east and why move it Folkestone), why in July when the kids are still at school, the toilets and facilities (an ongoing saga before the open  porta-poos), quad bikes, kids, the NLBA etc etc  , but still ever year people attend, maybe we are all masochists !

 

 

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One deciding factor which will be a huge issue for WP, without sounding political (let's not turn this into views of such choices, just the realistic outcome):  Brexit.

 

Next year may see a huge lack of anything from mainland Europe. Traders, vehicles, spares, all may have very real issues coming. More so with import/export licensing possibly handled in a new format, hindering movement.

I'll be interested to see how that effects things.

 

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When arriving on the Saturday I was surprised to find big open area's in the America's field. We had a good spot near the spot we used to camp.

Toilets, to my surprise they were stocked with toilet paper every time I went and they were quit clean.

Also noticed less re-enactors, Tracked vehicles, and less traders. Also the abscence (for some years) of the big MV collectors like SDKFZ (Wheatcroft).

Unfortunaltely the bad weather prevented the Lancaster over flight.

I loved to see a Fieseler Storch earlier in the week. Never seen it before.

Last year I stayed in our camp but this year I went to the concerts next to the area. Much nicer than standing around in a beer tent. I enjoyed the music.

 

I heard that this years all re-enactors had to pay, is that true?

 

Anyway I agree with Paul about Brexit. ( I'll not go into politics).

I can imagine some mainland traders not booking early because of the uncertainty of the actual date. Maybe some MV owners also stayed away and went some where else. I myself was wondering what would have happened if Brexit was done last May.

Depending on the outcome would I have to give a invertory of what I had in the car? Would there be huge delays because of checks etc. Luckily for ME no Brexit yet. But next year could be a deal breaker for traders. If they had to pay import taxes and have lenghty border checks a lot will stay away.

 

My W&P...I had fun. Meeting old friends like Markheliops, Gritineye, Martin H. is always good. Made a few new friends.

Bought some bits. Enjoyed the live music. Seen some beautiful ladies walking about. Enjoyed seeing the Storch. Sweated like a leaky radiator on a inflatable couch, trundled through the mud.

AND, enjoyed the ride in the Saurer of Andy.

 

So, It was a good year.

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24 minutes ago, Enigma said:

I heard that this years all re-enactors had to pay, is that true?

Yes £10 each :( not sure what the charge was for, perhaps it was for toilets?

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I do miss catching up with friends, but that's about it. The same gripes will always be there, as the organiser doesn't really have to listen; until it's too late. Now living on the mainland there are far better shows for spares for vehicles (Ciney, etc). 

I suspect Brexit will bring import licences for vehicles, which take time to apply for. Also, as Enigma mentioned, traders may well not risk the booking of crossings in advance because of the uncertainty. I wonder how much that will effect WP. As if you removed 20% of EU attendance it would be very sparsely attended.

I also wonder how that would effect spares for military vehciles, as if you take WW2 American stock vehcile spares they all originate in the USA, or France and Netherlands. 

It's food for thought.

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I guess Brexit won't affect affect visitors/tourists too much as in people with soft skinned vehicles and the like, but for traders it will be a dealbreaker as there will be loads of administration involved and I think most just won't bother.

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I had to get an export licence just to take vehicles out of the UK! That's before all this nonsense starts, so if that is the same for any vehicle of military origin or use it will likely be the same entering, as the current ruling would be lost. So I would guess vehicles would also be hugely difficult to get into the country for the show.

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10 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Yes £10 each :( not sure what the charge was for, perhaps it was for toilets?

And so they should.
If mv owners have to pay, then so should the re enactors.

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With Brexit, deal or no deal it is not proposed that our friends in EU would have to pay for or take out a license to bring a road legal vehicle to the UK. So if a Jeep or GMC or similar is driven off the ferry it's no different than them arriving in an every day car.

As for traders and re-enactors I guess they are already subject to inspections (I hope) should they bring in live weapons. So might Brexit be an excuse not to attend initially, while people see how things go but then it becomes business as usual after 9 months from 31st October?

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, LarryH57 said:

With Brexit, deal or no deal it is not proposed that our friends in EU would have to pay for or take out a license to bring a road legal vehicle to the UK. So if a Jeep or GMC or similar is driven off the ferry it's no different than them arriving in an every day car.

As for traders and re-enactors I guess they are already subject to inspections (I hope) should they bring in live weapons. So might Brexit be an excuse not to attend initially, while people see how things go but then it becomes business as usual after 9 months from 31st October?

Well said, You beat me to it, 

 I cant see it having too much effect on anything coming in as visitors etc, I work on a cross channel ferry and it would stop overnight if no vehicles could get in without paperwork etc, it seems everyone is blaming Brexit for everything even though were still in the EU........... I'm an out man myself but for one reason , I don't want to be ruled by an unelected Fedral Government , am sure once were out, others will follow....... 

Problem is everyone cant remember what the Common Market was all about, a good thing back then, but the EU........with its own flag and anthem, didn't Some bloke with a dodgy moustache try something similar in 1939, but went in a bit heavy handed...... 

Import & export only applies to goods that are entering or leaving the UK permanently, Bringing goods in tempory to the UK from outside the EU requires some paperwork in advance, IE for a trade example or a repair etc,  A trader from the EU would require something to trade even now I would of thought, even when we leave i think it will be kept as simple as can be.....Thats if we ever leave !!

Edited by bigduke6

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Posted (edited)

Unfortunately there are permanent and temporary export licences. If you have, for example, a military land rover, to go to France you are legally required to have a temporary export licence. Many I am sure do not know, but it may risk vehcile loss or many tears if enforced.

For me to take a vehicle on a temporary basis to Germany I needed a licence. Also for the trailer as that's of military origin. So, in theory if this was actually enforced, as I'm sure it will be more, it could in theory stop vehciles without correct paperwork.

http://www.milweb.net/features/military_vehicle_export_licence.ph

As for being ruled by one Brussels government, it isn't quite like that, even now each country has their own rules for vehicle movements, not one enforced rule. 

See above.

 

Edited by paul connor

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I thought this forum was 'none political'....

After that diatribe I think not !  I totally disagree with these comments and as for duel nationality, my opinion that it is impossible even if the paperwork says it is.

Do we have Forum moderators ?

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