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RAF dakota 2 weeks ago - markings


Cheshire Steve

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They say there are no dumb questions, but I may get a prize here. At the Smallwood Vintage Rally 2 weeks ago we have a fly-by by an RAF marked Dakota. It was fabulous and the sound took me back 30 years - but the photo I took leads to my potentially dumb question - where is the registration number that would surely have been written large on the fuselage - I can't even see it written anywhere? Whick Dakota is it? How can I tell?

Dakota.jpg

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Wow didn't even see the reg it is so small. So where did I get this crazy idea that WW2 planes had to have bigger reg letters you could easily see?. Maybe the huge letters on the side are part of a group ID. I will try and find an example ...OK have found a photo - can see the large letter is on its own, the reg is smaller but still written large. I think it was the germans who had their ID written large - maybe that is where my confusion comes from.Page16g.thumb.jpg.35dadd225301a72b70ccd48e44032cb1.jpg

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Thanks, just me being dumb. When I looked at the photo I took of the dakota I knew something was missing - but its the lack of squadron codes.

Most of the BBMF have the large letters of squadron codes, presumably from their original service, but not this one - which makes it look odd.

Fabulous aircraft though.

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  • 4 weeks later...

ZA947 is a much more recent military registration. Tornado GR1s were in the ZA range so late 70s/early 80s.

there is only one DC3 owned by BBMF.

 

The BBMF codes and paint scheme are usually applied to represent a significant plane of its type to honour the original aircraft or pilot.

The Lanc on the right side will always have ‘City of Lincoln’ to honour the county many Lancs flew from and is now the home of BBMF. The left has commemorative marking such as ‘Thumper’, ‘Leader’, ‘Phantom of the Ruhr’ etc.

we had a Spit painted to represent EB-G for our 100 anniversary back in 2016, it originally served with 266 Sqn. It is the last airworthy Spit that actually flew in the BoB.

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The BBMF's Dakota, was given the serial ZA947, in July 1979, as original serial number is (currently) unknown. 

It was originally made for the USAAC, then transferred to the Royal Canadian Air Force, then came to the RAE in April 1969. It was originally given the serial KG661, until it was found that this Dakota had been destroyed in December '44.

The Fw190 pictured, is from Schnellkampfgeschwader 10 (SKG 10)  a bomber unit, so has appropriate unit codes.

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Thanks for the info - I was at RAE 84-87. Wish I had paid more attention to all the wonderful aircraft still there then - main involvement I had was related to the Comet.

I guess Dakotas were made in such huge numbers that its hard to keep track of them, but I would be very interested if there is any history of a Dakota which was US, crashed in the Western Desert in WW2, recovered by an RSU and as the Americans had already written it off it was rebuild as the personal transport for the local RAF big wig at the time. I have photos of it polished til you can see your face in it, probably taken at Heliopolis,  but you can't see the designation.

DakotaRestored.jpg

DakotaTeam.jpg

DakotaRestored2.jpg

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19 hours ago, Pzkpfw-e said:

Interesting to see a few Bisleys behind the Dakota. 

Does that help date the photo? Looks like 99 on the side of the nearest one. If I can get a date I should be able to narrow down where it was, as have my father's diary of his postings.

Steve

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The Bisley (officially the Blenheim V, I believe, the Bisley proper being a ground attack version which was not proceed with) ceased to be used as a bomber in 1943 (it was already obsolete when built). The ones in the photograph have had the gun turrets removed, so are presumably trainers or communications aircraft. They are unlikely to have been retained for very long after May 1945, as much better aircraft would have become available after VE day, and even more so after VJ day. Having the manpower available to salvage a write-off and rebuild it, and finish it in silver, with peace-time roundels (the white circle is wider than that on the Bisley) suggests that the war is over, so I suggest late 1945/early 1946.

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Greece was invaded before the Blenheim V came into service, and I doubt they would have had any after the war. So far as I know Coastal Command didn't operate outside the Atlantic and North Sea, or operate Blenheim Vs. As the lighter colour appears on part of the fin and rudder, alongside the darker colour, I think they are in sand and stone; their last front line service would have been in North Africa.

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20 hours ago, Noel7 said:

The Bisley (officially the Blenheim V, I believe, the Bisley proper being a ground attack version which was not proceed with) ceased to be used as a bomber in 1943 (it was already obsolete when built). The ones in the photograph have had the gun turrets removed, so are presumably trainers or communications aircraft. They are unlikely to have been retained for very long after May 1945, as much better aircraft would have become available after VE day, and even more so after VJ day. Having the manpower available to salvage a write-off and rebuild it, and finish it in silver, with peace-time roundels (the white circle is wider than that on the Bisley) suggests that the war is over, so I suggest late 1945/early 1946.

That would tie in with him being in 168 MU at Heliopolis from July 1944 to Jan 1946 (though with 3 months out in Athens with 372 RSU in Jan - Mar 45). Before the formation of 168MU Helipolis had been the home for the BARU and while figuring out what this was (see separate thread) I have found evidence that it was a main hub for aircraft, damaged airframes being shipped there from RSUs, old planes being flown there to be retired (which could explain the Blenheims). Probably acted as base servicing, repair and overhaul and reallocation too.

Is this a Blenheim? This would have been in 1942/43 - RSU recovery in progress (I always found it amazing that a small bunch of people in desert heat - admittedly with a Coles crane - could strip out engines, remove wings, tail, and recover entire aircraft - even larger aircraft like dakotas and bombers).

Steve

Page15b.jpg

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Shame the nose of the aircraft is not visible, which would have made the identification so much easier! However, what is visible is consistent with a Blenheim. The turret confused me, as it was not the type I was expecting to see, but some research on the internet indicated that late production Mark IVs had a lower profile Bristol twin Browning turret [different to that of the Mark V], so I think this is what the photo shows.

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