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1940 Triumph 3SW Restoration

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Originaly Steve the levers would have been matt chrome plated. You can cheat if you are going to paint them anyway with something like Simonize Wheel silver or Cold zinc spray. Ron

3SW 164.jpg

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By chance has anyone got photos/a source for the correct toolbox knob / bar that secures the lid?

Currently I have picked up a slight later tool box, possibly 3HW but would like it to look as authentic as possible ....

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The first twp pictures are the pre-war/3SW toolbox with the pronounced hinges and round knob. Third picture is a 3HW toolbox with piano hinge and 'dumbell' knob. Ron

3SW 111.jpg

DSCF1448.jpg

3SW 151.jpg

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I think those are a generic WD dumbell knob made in India. They're near enough! Ron

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I think Brian Tillin made mine.  Ron 

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Hi I am new to this site but am hoping you guys can help me out . I am in the middle of rebuilding a triumph tiger 80 and hope to pick your brains. First of all do any of you own one or know anyone that does. I am missing a few engine parts one of them being the crankcase breather . The parts diagram is as clear as mud. Hope someone can help me obtain one or give me any info on the sizes Ect so I can make one thanks in advance

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Well the cycle parts will be mostly the same as our 3/5SW's and our 3HW's have a similar 350 ohv engine except for the different cylinder head etc. 

I know that Brian Tillin  has made the engine breather flap valve units..... brian.tillin@icloud.com

There is a simple little brass/copper disc inside the body of the valve. The disc can completely wear away and disapear over time, and from memory it's impossible to get at without removing the whole primary side.😣

Mention my name if you want, if you contact Brian.  Ron Pier

 

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Ron thank you for your reply regarding the crankcase breather for my tiger 80. Sorry it's not a Millitary bike but like you say the bottom ends arn't much different. Hope I can keep picking your brains.

Just back to the subject of your bike I am in possession of my grandfathers army documents who was a dispatch rider in ww2. I have his log book for his bike and I think when I tried to research it the model is a triumph 3sw. I was wandering if you can confirm this. The book says the chassis no is. T.L.I.3064 and the Engine no is 26034. 

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Frame TL 13064 should  be from for either contracts C3360, C4631 or C5108 for 3SW's all ordered in 1939. (But records lost)  

Have you any pictures of your Granddad and his bike?

 

Ron

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Unfortunately there are no pictures of him with the bike but the mileage and fuel records in the book are all dated 1940. There is a W.D no C3917745 not sure what this means. Apparently he was blown off one bike on his way through France and ended up in a hospital in Weymouth. Then went back to France on another Triumph wich was dumped in the sea at Dunkirk to stop the Germans using it after being evacuated. This bike apparently meant that much to him ,he said it saved his life after carrying messages through France under heavy fighting he kept the tax disc holder from it before destroying it. Log book says the bike was transferred from VRD SlOUGH and he was in 27th RASC

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Well that is great information. C3917745 is the bikes census number......Efectivley it's registration number which was painted on the tank.  It's the 294th bike from 300 under contract C4631. The contract was demanded on 26th July 39 and delivered at 50 per week and completed on 2nd Oct 39.

This is a little snippet of information that can be added to the information that we already know. I'll send it to Chris Orchard who is the co author of 'British Forces Motorcycles'

 

Ron

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Posted (edited)

The 3SW was an RASC vehicle under the earlier system which had them responsible for their own vehicles and for other 2nd line units.  The V.R.D. (Vehicle Reserve Depot) at Slough was one of the major distribution points. There is a good chance that C3917745 is somewhere along the rows in one of these photos.  We can be pretty sure now that these photos were taken at Slough, and not the other big depot at Feltham. A definite documentary link between frame, engine and serial numbers is a rare and useful thing to have. Would there be any chance of scanning and posting the documents that you have ?

Triumph 3SW 8 dec 1939.jpg

Triumph 3SW RASC Stores.jpg

Edited by 79x100
poor typing

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Rik I'd  momentarily forgotten those pictures of contract C4631. I've given myself eye strain many times studying them, not least looking to see if I can see which way the horn faces.

The DU42 6" headlamps have convinced me that these were based on the pre war 3SE (economy) as nearly all the others had 8" headlamps.

Rik have you done any calculations yet? Based on the information supplied by 'Tiger80' Ive calculated the frames for contract C4631 to be TL 12771-13070 with engines 3SW 25741-26040.

I'd also love to see some scans from Granddads army documents.   Ron

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5 hours ago, Tiger80 said:

No problem I will try and put images of the info I have on for you

 

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My grandad is in the photo back row far right in his ain't half hot mum gear. The cross says on it 'given to me at Metz' 17/03/1940. The tax disc holder is apparently off the bike at Dunkirk. The route card we have traced the town's to be near Paris. Hope this helps

Mark

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Mark,  Fantastic stuff.

It looks as if, during his time with the BEF  that he was  3 Corps Troops Ammunition Company who would have displayed the Corps fig leaf sign and an arm of service sign comprising the figure '40' on RASC red over green diagonal with white corps bar above.

3 Corps were responsible for the units rotated on the Saar (Maginot Line) and the date on the palm cross indicates that your grandfather was there prior to 51st Division arriving, to whom he was then attached. 

Jan (Rewdco' s) Enfield WD/C (also an RASC machine) was found close to Metz and he marked it as 51st Div RASC.

In the mid-ground here is a 3 Corps Triumph 3SW with a serial begining C39177** - Not your grandfather's though as it still has the tax disc holder. I do like your Triumph advert by the way. Pretty sure Ron will be making himself one of those shortly 🙂 It certainly adds to the impression that C4631 were pretty much standard civilian production.

Triumph 3SW C39177 3 Corps.JPG

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Granddad and his mates look very fetching in their 'Bombay Bloomers'. I'll be reading through those documents later, although the BEF period, regiments, divisions etc is right up Rik's street. 

The vehicle ducument is the provnance we require to fill in the missing frame and engine number details from that contract. For some reason, 249cc has been written in by 'Horse Power' with the correct 343cc in brackets. The bore and stroke is correct for a 350.

I've already sent my calculations to Chris Orchard and he says it will be entered in the next revision. (I'll be writing it in my current edition once my maths have been confirmed by Rik/Chris/Jan).  

I trusted my trusty Triumph (5SW) to Swanage today (50 mile round trip) 😊

Ron

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Just to confirm, the Triumph was delivered to RASC Vehicle Reserve Depot at Slough and the first (and only) transfer was to 3rd C.T.A.C. (3rd Corps Troops Ammunition Company) RASC. on 13th January 1940.

Your grandfather must have gone to France sooner than the main body though as 3 Corps Amn. Coy. didn't go to France until 4rd April. They took 46 motorcycles at that time.

IMG_20190317_132608462.thumb.jpg.54f2166494dc7c98969c0928fe06e4e9.jpg

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PS. The chassis number written in the vehicle details document TL I 3064 is also a mistake. Someone has mistaken the 1 for an I.

Ron

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25 minutes ago, Ron said:

PS. The chassis number written in the vehicle details document TL I 3064 is also a mistake. Someone has mistaken the 1 for an I.

Ron

Wow, thank you so much for the information as we didn't know this. 

Mark

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Yes all those frames numbers were prefixed TL.  'I' was never used in the prefix. The next known numbers after Granddads are frame TL 14612 with engine 27606.  Which are the only know numbers from 3300 bikes in the next contract in 1940. 

Knowing the frame number and it's census number enables us to work out a pattern. 

Ron

 

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