Mystery Krupp ((?) vehicle

[GoranWC51 10]

A newspaper clipping from Nov 12 1944 published on the G503 forum on Facebook is showing, apart from the Jeep equipped with a rear mounted 50 cal, also a mystery ARC, American Red Cross Clubmobile vehicle, claimed to be of ex German origin and made by Krupp.

It seems to be a COE, Cab Over Engine, model. Probably a former radio or command truck. I have very little knowledge on German vehicles, but a quick Google search came up with Krupp trucks and cars, with the, for me, typical snout nose, none were COE.

I have tried to make the photo as clear as I could.

Any help in pinpointing the model etc much appreciated

[johann morris 40]

It doesn't look German to me, more like a modified Citroen.

 

Jon

[Gordon_M 15]

That Clubmobile looks like a standard American truck with a body and cab by Montpelier or Metropolitan, which did such COE conversions through the 30's into the early '40's when manufacturers own COE cabs appeared.

[GoranWC51 10]

I doubt, though, that that is the case. It doesn't look American for one, and second the article gives the trucks origins as German, even if Krupp seems unlikely.

Do you have any photos of the US made COE trucks you're referring to?

I am with Johann on this one, and putting it's origins as French rather than American.  The Peugeot DMA, was one COE type trck used in large numbers by the Germans. They put their hands on thousands of vehicles at the start of the war. The Allies left scores of vehicles behind at Dunkerque, and the French army left all their rolling stock behind when they surrendered. It must have been a logistical nightmare to find parts and repair and service all these different vehicles, of very different origin. The Americans, on the other hand, used it to their advantage to standardise many of the items thaat could be used across the line, gauges, for example.

The search continues,

G

[Gordon_M 15]

 

International Metropolitan van:

 

... and a late 1930's Dodge with a Montpelier body

 

The truck could have been bought in the US with charity funds and forwarded to the Red Cross effort

Edited December 28, 2018 by Gordon_M

[79x100 14]

Krupp did produce some forward-control coaches and busses but larger and more elegant than this one...is the vehicle in the photo the 'Doughnut kitchen' (which was a Krupp truck) or the 'sleeping quarters' - the Clubmobile van ?

[the-blue-cloud 10]

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fried._Krupp_Motoren-_und_Kraftwagenfabriken

 

http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Hauptseite_deutsch/Kraftfahrzeuge/Deutschland/Krupp/Krupp_Protze/krupp_protze.html

[Ex-boy 13]

Rereading this, I wondered whether the truck in the picture is just the sleeping van mentioned in the article, and the Krupp (together with the weapons carrier) is not actually in the picture at all!

Any thoughts anyone?

Steve.

[ltwtbarmy 11]

On 1/6/2019 at 4:39 PM, Ex-boy said:

Rereading this, I wondered whether the truck in the picture is just the sleeping van mentioned in the article, and the Krupp (together with the weapons carrier) is not actually in the picture at all!

Any thoughts anyone?

Steve.

I tend to agree that the Krupp is not in the pictures. Looking for “American Red Cross tea wagons”, I stumbled on the Daughters of the Revolution website and found a couple of pictures of mobile blood units, which show vehicles similar to the one in the newspaper article above, one of which has a clear Minnesota registration. So i guess the vehicle in the picture is american, but what is it?

https://www.dar.org/national-society/celebrate-125/committed-service-dar-and-american-red-cross

Edited May 19, 2019 by ltwtbarmy

[ltwtbarmy 11]

In fact, could this be the “Krupp” in question? I don’t recognise the badge either! The Borgward badge is similar, but I leave this to the experts now.

https://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/news-photo/american-red-cross-clubmobile-girls-in-a-captured-german-news-photo/78603194

The caption obviously has a mistake, because unless I missed it somewhere, the d day landings were after 1942!

“American Red Cross Clubmobile girls in a captured German vehicle in France during World War II. circa 1942. They are serving with the 36th Infantry Division. From left to right, they are Dorothy Boschen, Virginia Spetz, Jane Cook and Meredythe Gardiner. (Photo by FPG/Hulton Archive/Getty Images)”

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by ltwtbarmy
Added possible manufacturer

[Richard Farrant 36]

The badge looks similar to Renault, without checking old books to match the cab.

[super6 10]

3 hours ago, ltwtbarmy said:

In fact, could this be the “Krupp” in question? I don’t recognise the badge either! The Borgward badge is similar, but I leave this to the experts now.

https://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/news-photo/american-red-cross-clubmobile-girls-in-a-captured-german-news-photo/78603194

The caption obviously has a mistake, because unless I missed it somewhere, the d day landings were after 1942!

“American Red Cross Clubmobile girls in a captured German vehicle in France during World War II. circa 1942. They are serving with the 36th Infantry Division. From left to right, they are Dorothy Boschen, Virginia Spetz, Jane Cook and Meredythe Gardiner. (Photo by FPG/Hulton Archive/Getty Images)”

 

Looks similar/like a Renault AGK with suicide doors

https://myntransportblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/1936-renault-agk.jpg

[Richard Farrant 36]

1 hour ago, super6 said:

Looks similar/like a Renault AGK with suicide doors

https://myntransportblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/1936-renault-agk.jpg

Hi super6,

Looks like you have confirmed it, a Renault truck 👍

[ltwtbarmy 11]

4 hours ago, super6 said:

Looks similar/like a Renault AGK with suicide doors

https://myntransportblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/1936-renault-agk.jpg

I agree super6, thanks for that one. Any ideas on the original vehicle in the newspaper article and the ones I first posted (which i think are all the same make?)

 

[Nick Johns 20]

15 hours ago, ltwtbarmy said:

I tend to agree that the Krupp is not in the pictures. Looking for “American Red Cross tea wagons”, I stumbled on the Daughters of the Revolution website and found a couple of pictures of mobile blood units, which show vehicles similar to the one in the newspaper article above, one of which has a clear Minnesota registration. So i guess the vehicle in the picture is american, but what is it?

https://www.dar.org/national-society/celebrate-125/committed-service-dar-and-american-red-cross

Link to a 1944 American Red Cross article that states these emergency blood supply and clubmobile vans were coachbuilt  on Ford truck chassis

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1893&dat=19440308&id=hqwfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nNYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3165,3417776&hl=en

Edited May 19, 2019 by Nick Johns

[super6 10]

4 minutes ago, Nick Johns said:

Link to a 1944 American Red Cross article that states these emergency blood supply and clubmobile vans were built on Ford truck chassis

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1893&dat=19440308&id=hqwfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nNYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3165,3417776&hl=en

I was looking at this newspaper article as you posted your reply. Who bodied them seems to be lost in the mists of time although they do look a little bit like the Montpelier Super Urban van, albeit with a higher roof line.

[Gordon_M 15]

I'd be happy to call them Ford 1.5 ton 4 x2 with Montpelier bodies.  Note that the original image, and the high level image in the DoR, both show the ambulance-style ventilator bolted to the rear side of the body - presumably one on each side.

The reason that the bodies are contractor-built is worth repeating; the major US manufacturers did not have their own COE cabs before about 1940.  1940-onwards Dodge and Ford ( presumably others too ... ) had realised how big the market for COEs was and engineered their own cabs.  I have always assumed that the contractors like Montpelier and Metropolitan not only built the bodies but had to rework steering and controls to suit too, which wouldn't have been that easy.  I remember the early GMC searchlight 6x6 trucks had completely different manifold and carburettor setups, for example.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Gordon_M

[super6 10]

I had another internet rummage and came up with this, Ford Vanette, scroll down and look at the brochures 

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/v/vanette/vanette.htm

Edited May 20, 2019 by super6