mammoth Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 The front tyre size is for a 23" rim which was used by Dennis (8 stud) until 20" rims superseded them in the early 30's. Hard to get that size in the heavier duty truck version. I know because I am after a set! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 At least the absence of front brakes is authentic for a pre-1923 Rolls-Royce. I'm told that at the time RR considered front brakes to be dangerous things since they enabled the driver to lock the front wheels! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rania Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 18 hours ago, Citroman said: Nice beast, front wheels look like Michelins that were used on the Citroen U23 trucks. U23 wheels. 99.9% sure they are the ones I need. Thank you. Now to find some..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rania Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 15 hours ago, Tony B said: Who cares? Getting running for 11/11/2018 That isjust gorgeous! Hi, I would love to but can't commit as I need to sort out MOT as she's on a Q plate. This is why I need wheels and possibly brakes sorted. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Best of luck! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whittingham warrior Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Certainly an impressive looking vehicle, hats off to the team that built it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 On 10/10/2018 at 1:04 PM, Richard Farrant said: The engine is a Bedford 214 3.5 litre. Now - I can see BEDFORD pressed in the top (rear) of the rocker cover , I am so thick - part illegible but was convinced it was FORD ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) Here an Michelin ad from 1918 Edited October 13, 2018 by Citroman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpsmit Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Elle est chic?! 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-boy Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Advertisers have always had a bit of a cheek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rania Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 The original RR's had spoked wheels then changed in 1920 to Miichelin solid wheels. The vehicle has 3 different wheel types and 2 differenr rim/tyre sizes. so I hope the Cltreon has 8" hole centers. The originals were solid. All ( except the bedfords) have been cut about to fit. 8" hole centers is critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Rania, Just to be clear, in your drawing above, does the 'D' dimension refer to the pitch diameter of the wheel studs (in which case it would be the distance between opposite ones), or does it refer to the distance as shown, from one to the next but one ? It is much more conventional to specify the diameter of the circle that the studs are on, ie from one stud to the one furthest from it, ie directly opposite it. If you are going to modify wheels to fit your hubs you will need to measure both the pitch circle and the diameter of the hub that locates the wheel rather more accurately than you can with a tape measure ! Sorry to be pedantic ! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-boy Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, David Herbert said: Rania, Just to be clear, in your drawing above, does the 'D' dimension refer to the pitch diameter of the wheel studs (in which case it would be the distance between opposite ones), or does it refer to the distance as shown, from one to the next but one ? It is much more conventional to specify the diameter of the circle that the studs are on, ie from one stud to the one furthest from it, ie directly opposite it. If you are going to modify wheels to fit your hubs you will need to measure both the pitch circle and the diameter of the hub that locates the wheel rather more accurately than you can with a tape measure ! Sorry to be pedantic ! David Hi David, I think the D dimension is actually supposed to be the pitch diameter, as the left hand grey line extends through one stud to the one below, which doesn't make it easy to see. STEVE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rania Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 Hi David, It is hole center to center. The 1920 RR models were fittel with Michelin steel wheels but I'm not sure my hubs are the same dimensions I fear adding drum brakes will increase the front axle width so requiring dish wheels like the original bedford ones. or replacement front axle. I attach photos of front/rear wheel depth so you see the issue. Incorrect fromt hubs fitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Studs distances are measured diagonally normally center to center holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rania Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Citroman said: Studs distances are measured diagonally normally center to center holes. I did it this way: 12 0'clock to 6 O'clock. I'ver changed the bad black line colour so I hope its clearer. Edited October 14, 2018 by Rania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I think we just have an issue of how the dimension is shown on Rania's drawing. It shows measuring from the studs at 10 to 2 o'clock. Continuing the LH dimension line down to the 8 o'clock stud changes nothing as it is directly below the 10 o'clock one. If one wanted to show the dimension from the 12 to 6 o'clock studs one would take the dimension lines out horizontaly and then mark the vertical distance between them. If one wanted to show the distance between the 8 and 2 o'clock ones one would draw the dimension lines at 30 degrees to the left of vertical and mark the distance between them. Alternatively one could just say that the centres of the studs are on a circle (known as the pitch circle) of whatever diameter, which would apply regardless of how many studs there are. The explanation of measuring odd number studs in the left image above might serve if you were roughly comparing wheels but it would be idiotic to use it to specify what you need as it is very inaccurate. How inaccurate depends on if there are 3 / 5 / 7 etc studs but that is not mentioned. It is just wrong !! And they are not always in inches either, nor round numbers !! Grrr... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rania Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, David Herbert said: I think we just have an issue of how the dimension is shown on Rania's drawing. It shows measuring from the studs at 10 to 2 o'clock. Continuing the LH dimension line down to the 8 o'clock stud changes nothing as it is directly below the 10 o'clock one. If one wanted to show the dimension from the 12 to 6 o'clock studs one would take the dimension lines out horizontaly and then mark the vertical distance between them. If one wanted to show the distance between the 8 and 2 o'clock ones one would draw the dimension lines at 30 degrees to the left of vertical and mark the distance between them. Alternatively one could just say that the centres of the studs are on a circle (known as the pitch circle) of whatever diameter, which would apply regardless of how many studs there are. The explanation of measuring odd number studs in the left image above might serve if you were roughly comparing wheels but it would be idiotic to use it to specify what you need as it is very inaccurate. How inaccurate depends on if there are 3 / 5 / 7 etc studs but that is not mentioned. It is just wrong !! And they are not always in inches either, nor round numbers !! Grrr... David Quote Hi David, There are 6 studs - drawing not scaled. The yellow line line goes past the one at 10 O'clock to the next one at 8 o'clock. Sorry this is not clear. Edited October 14, 2018 by Rania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-boy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Rotating the wheel by 30 degrees (in either direction) would have enabled a clearer representation, but we are not all technical drawing experts. Anyway, it seems we now understand what is intended. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just my 2 penneth worth. The rear wheel with holes in it is Dennis. Same as fitted to their trailer pumps. The front wheels are simply 23 inch rim Sankey wheels, as fitted to a lot of vintage lorrys. 33x5's as you note (33 (OD) - (2x5 (height) = 23 rim) And they are 8 stud, not 6. There is an adaptor between the 6 stud hub, and 8 stud wheel. If it were mine, Id put the adaptor between the wheel and the hub, not in front of the adaptor. It would look more accurate in wheel terms, but it would bring them further out, may have wing issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustexpert Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 On 10/10/2018 at 11:12 AM, Rania said: It's a bit of a bodge I think. I suspect the 'H' reg was used to get the 'Q' plate as the Bedford makers plate is screwed to a wooden bulkhead with 4 different screws and the Bedford chassis number is probably welded in. The chassis is ancient - 1920's in my view as no front brakes were ever fitted.. I'll upload another photo showing more I remember as a student visiting the Luton factory in 1989, which by then was AWD trucks; they were still producing export "J" type trucks with no front brakes for export sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 The tyre size you refer to as 23 inch. Is this a recent tyre size where the original size would have been 24 inch? 24 inch being a common size in the 1920's Trying to find 24 inch tyres that are usable is a problem for the restorations here. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Nope. 23inch as stated. Old size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 My error in assuming these were a heavier tyre of the type used on a lorry. These 23 inch tyres therefore being like those on some vintage cars of the time. What is the ply rating on these tyres? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Tyres are available from Lucas in the USA. Ply rating for car ones is not much, which is why you have to make a point of getting truck ones. Don't think they had 'ply rating' back then. As vintage tyre sizes have a 100% height (later tyres were low profile to greater or lesser extent) it is easy to calculate the rim size. ;- subtract twice width from diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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