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2 Jeeps at Brightwells

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1952 Ford Jeep M38 CDN.

1945 Willys Jeep fitted with Toyota engine. Not sure if this the same one that Brightwells sold last year for £7,500 but there can't be many 1945 Jeeps imported from the Philippines in February 2016 and whilst in the Philippines, a 2.2 Litre Toyota Engine was fitted.

https://www.brightwells.com/classic-motoring/bicester-classic-vintage/bicester-classic-vintage-24th-october-2018/bicester-catalogue-24th-october/

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Posted (edited)

What a right old cobble up of bits, Phillipinos are well know for rebuilding whatever is to hand, as well as the Toyota engine it has later gearbox, car pendant type pedals, Willys CJ3B Tag on the dash with CJ serial number, how was this verified by the MVT DVLA registered.as 1942?? ...the body is a very cobbled post war CJ, no rear locker boxes, ribbed front floor, lots of filler and weld repairs, made up dash panel, and fuel tank, I saw it up for sale recently at Goodwood for £16K !! 

Edited by Nick Johns

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March this year Richard Edmonds auction it went for around 10,000 ....there's a few pictures on here if you look back......

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5 hours ago, Nick Johns said:

how was this verified by the MVT as 1942?? ...

An excellent question. I have raised it with them. 

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5 hours ago, Surveyor said:

How much of the original has to be there to verify the age?

From listening to those who have had jeeps "verified" it appears to depend on who turns up on the day after all if you own a jeeps you have an astonishing aftermarket spares packages available leading back to what constitutes original  

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The Ford, was also sold in June last year for £9,900.

I, wonder if the sellers don't like their Jeeps or are just hoping to make a quick profit. 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Great War truck said:

An excellent question. I have raised it with them. 

It was questioned back in April when this Jeep sold for £9000+ commision... its DVLA registered as 1942

 

Edited by Nick Johns

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The advert says:

It’s ready to go and most importantly; there is on file a letter to the DVLA from the Military Vehicle Trust confirming the opinion that this Jeep has a World War II pedigree. 

If the MVT issue letters like that to the DVLA do they come back to the vehicle owner? I struggle to believe that this Jeep would have been verified as wartime. 

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49 minutes ago, Great War truck said:

The advert says:

It’s ready to go and most importantly; there is on file a letter to the DVLA from the Military Vehicle Trust confirming the opinion that this Jeep has a World War II pedigree. 

If the MVT issue letters like that to the DVLA do they come back to the vehicle owner? I struggle to believe that this Jeep would have been verified as wartime. 

Hi Tim,

The MVT do not send documents to DVLA, they issue a verification letter to the owner for them to apply for registration. This is done once an inspection is made by  a member of the club. I have done inspections for verification in the past, thankfully not on any vehicles of doubt though.

Richard

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As the West Sussex Area Secretary (MVT) I was notified by one of my members who spotted this "jeep" for sale at a local classic car dealership - after chatting to the sales team he contacted me where-upon I also spoke with the garage - unfortunately despite my reassurances that I wasn't a potential buyer or indeed wanted to get a better deal for a friend - they refused to listen to my concerns - adamant that I was trying to merely knock the price down significantly.(if you check out the West Sussex Military Vehicle Conservation Group Facebook page you will see more   https://www.facebook.com/groups/wsmvcg/ )

- I also questioned the verification - Im very surprised to hear it is being advertised as a 42, last I heard it was being sold as a 45 era jeep which is what it was rightly verified as - it was verified according to the then guidelines for verification at the time which stated that if a clear date of manufacture could not be established - the last production date would be recorded as the vehicles age - this then made it a 45 ( - Incidentally since the verification on this jeep, the rules have been  tightened up to now require that the vehicle is pretty much 99% complete and at MOT type stage of restoration )- however as I previously said ,when this was verified - a pile of bits or partial project was enough - I have spoken to the person who verified it at the time and they stated that the jeep they verified wasn't as it is being sold today and all of the modifications to the engine/chassis/brakes etc., etc. were completed after the verification - it must be made clear that the verification report is the same as an MOT - It is only valid at the time of inspection and doesn't then carry provenance for the remainder of the vehicles life.

I genuinely question this vehicles road-worthiness - and genuinely fear for whoever drives this vehicle - especially given the new mot exemptions for 40 yr. old vehicles which means this type of bodge will slip through the net if we are not diligent and alert.

  - and I also fear that someone unsuspectingly is going to pay nearly £17,000 for a jeep that I estimate to be worth little more than £4000 tops.... 

 

My fear was that the verification letter would come back to haunt the MVT with regards the vehicles provenance and authenticity , or a new member would turn up at a local event having spent a lot of money on a complete bitsa - however in this case - the seller is liable for miss-selling  under the sale of goods act - he has copies of e-mails on headed MVT paper from myself alerting him to my concerns that he has chosen to ignore .  - This really is a case of Buyer Beware - but I fear there is no more we as a club or as enthusiasts can do in this particular case..

Edited by JEMIMA

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23 minutes ago, JEMIMA said:

As the West Sussex Area Secretary I was notified by one of my members who spotted this "jeep" for sale at a local classic car dealership - after chatting to the sales team he contacted me where-upon I also spoke with the garage - unfortunately despite my reassurances that I wasn't a potential buyer or indeed wanted to get a better deal for a friend - they refused to listen to my concerns - adamant that I was trying to merely knock the price down significantly.(if you check out the West Sussex Military Vehicle Preservation Facebook page you will see more) - I also questioned the verification - but this isn't being sold as a 42, last I heard it was being sold as a 45 era jeep - it was verified according to the then guidelines for verification - which have now been tightened up to be pretty much that the vehicle is 99% complete and at MOT type stage of restoration - however when this was verified - a pile of bits or partial project was enough - I have spoken to the person who verified it at the time and they stated that the jeep they verified wasn't as it is being sold today and all of the modifications to the engine/chassis/brakes etc., etc. were completed after the verification - it must be made clear that the verification report is the same as an MOT - It is only valid at the time of inspection and doesn't then carry provenance for the remainder of the vehicles life.

I genuinely question this vehicles road-worthiness - especially given the new mot exemptions for 40 yr. old vehicles - and I also fear that someone unsuspecting is going to pay nearly £17,000 for a jeep that I estimate to be worth little more than £4000 tops.... 

That clarifies my earlier question thanks

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On 10/11/2018 at 9:11 AM, JEMIMA said:

 

- I also questioned the verification - Im very surprised to hear it is being advertised as a 42, last I heard it was being sold as a 45 era jeep which is what it was rightly verified as - it was verified according to the then guidelines for verification at the time which stated that if a clear date of manufacture could not be established - the last production date would be recorded as the vehicles age - this then made it a 45 ( - Incidentally since the verification on this jeep, the rules have been  tightened up to now require that the vehicle is pretty much 99% complete and at MOT type stage of restoration )- however as I previously said ,when this was verified - a pile of bits or partial project was enough - I have spoken to the person who verified it at the time and they stated that the jeep they verified wasn't as it is being sold today and all of the modifications to the engine/chassis/brakes etc., etc. were completed after the verification -

Are we talking about the same Jeep? ...the one currently for sale at Arun Cars, imported from the Phillipines, and entered into the forthcoming auction,... DVLA search shows YWG 536 was first registered  in July 2016 as a.. "1942 Willys Jeep MB," ..according to Arun cars it was apparently imported in February 2016 Already modified with the toyota engine and other mods etc, when I viewed it at Goodwwood in September on the Arun Cars stand all the modifications were obviously done a long time ago in the Phillipines and the Jeep imported complete as in the current state .Apparently the MVT verification letter states the Jeep as 1945, does it actually relate to this Jeep??

Edited by Nick Johns

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The above is interesting and both responses appear genuine but which is right. It's so easy to remanufacture a Jeep and apparently get authentication so establishing provenance very much a case of buyer beware. With regard to the auction house not amending the vehicles advertised description is unfortunate and possibly unlawful.  Some friends attending Goodwood a couple of years back drew an auction house attention to an incorrect description of a vehicle offered in the sale, the auction house concerned immediately checked the validity of the complaint and issued an immediate update with a revised estimate, again buyer beware or take a mate or two who might just know a little more than you do after all they will not be wearing the rose tinted glasses of desire 

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