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E10 Petrol Consultation

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2 hours ago, Scammell4199 said:

Thanks for the science lesson.

Yes burning thousands of gallons of diesel to farm ethanol producing crops is really green! its like power stations burning biomass thats been shipped half way round the world.

So worst case we can use avgas in our petrol burning vehicles because thats pure petrol - correct?


Not quite, Avgas still uses Tetraethyl lead to raise the octane rating just like in WW2.

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People seem to have forgotton a 'motor spirit'    Discol  (from the Scottish business - Distillers Co. Ltd  who manufactured alcohol potal and industrial from grain).  It was high octane and needed no lead.  I recall it sold  at the pumps into the 1970's as  "Cleveland Discol"   where it was blended 50:50 with petrol  (IIRC petrol being a  'motor spirit'  trade name originating from Carless Capel & Leonard , a follow up from their 'Launch Spirit'  ).     It seems Cleveland was bought oil by Esso  (Exxon  - one of the seven sisters) and sales of Discol terminated.   It seems to me there are other ways of obtaining a suitable spirit for petrol engines that does not go in the ethanol direction.   However , I am a retired engineer , my younger son is the chemist  ,,

Edited by ruxy
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(quick translation with google) The Dutch KNAC regularly receives questions about fuel for classic cars. In almost all cases this concerns petrol, because almost all classic cars have a petrol engine. That is why we specifically discuss petrol for classics in the article below.

Many petrol engines in classic cars have been developed to run on leaded petrol. That leaded petrol has been banned since the mid-nineties of the last century, not only because it is toxic, but also because lead precipitates in the catalyst of a modern car, causing it to lose its effect. Benzines with lead replacement are only available in small quantities. But older engines sometimes can not be used without lead or a lead replacement because otherwise the unhardened valve seats of old motors will be damaged. Lead was mainly in gasoline to increase the octane number, but for that there are now other additions. Who wants to add a lead replacement to the petrol has the choice of many additions.

Whether your classic petrol with a high octane number needs, is usually good to look up in the instruction booklet (if still present) or else there is something about it in literature. The Netherlands also has many good classic companies and good brand clubs that can advise on this.

Bio ethanol
The problem that classic cars today suffer mainly from - and that is going to get worse - is the addition of bioethanol to petrol. For some years now, bio-ethanol has been added to Euro 95 because this fuel reduces CO2 emissions at its source. After all, CO2 is absorbed by the plants in the growth of the plants from which this bioethanol is produced. The CO2 is released again when bioethanol is burned.

The percentage of blended bioethanol in Euro 95 in the Netherlands until recently was a maximum of 5 percent, but due to European directives this will increase to a maximum of 10 percent. That is why this petrol on all pumps in Europe eventually gets the new E10 mark in a circle. It simply means that up to 10 percent bioethanol can be mixed in (usually that is also the case). Ultimately, this percentage will become mandatory 10 per cent by 2020, because the EU countries have agreed that by 2020 at least 10 per cent of the fuel in transport must consist of alternative fuels.

Bioethanol is not good for old engines. Roughly you can say that motorbikes in cars from before 2000 can not handle it properly. The material of which the gaskets are made, various rubber parts (hoses and membranes) and cork and zinc can be damaged by bioethanol. The older the car, the greater the chance of damage and problems.

Fuel additive
Many owners of classic cars refuel to avoid problems with bioethanol Super lead-free 98 or another petrol with a high octane number (98 or higher), but only the super or 98 octane is no guarantee that a gasoline is ethanol-free. The KNAC has asked fuel companies if they are still supplying petrol that is free of bio-ethanol and that appears to be three more. In alphabetical order these are BP Ultimate (98 octane), Firezone Competition 102 (102 octane) and Shell V-Power (98 octane). According to Firezone, it will stay that way for a long time, because these special petrols are not covered by the EU directives.

Anyone who can not find a gas station in their area that sells ethanol-free gasoline can add a special agent to the gasoline that eliminates the harmful effects of bioethanol. The KNAC also offers a product in the webshop that eliminates the harmful effects of bioethanol and also serves as a lead replacement. In addition, an order can be ordered in the shop that protects the tank and the fuel system during winter storage. The bioethanol in the petrol attracts water and that can cause rust in the petrol tank and cause damage in the fuel system.

Edited by monty2

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