Royal Enfield ......Rare find No. 2 (really No.3)

[super6]

Okay maybe a daft question(s) but if you don't ask you don't get!

Presumably there is a key for the tool box on the basis of one fits all? All makes, standard key?

Is this part of the riders equipment as opposed to bike equipment?

What about for starting the bike, with regards turning on the ignition a key or is it just a switch?

Mounted where?

Fabulous restoration, like the joint effort by all concerned with people offering up parts from all over

I'm not a bike person, as if you couldn't guess  🙂

Paul

[Ron]

Paul only the coil ignition bikes require a key for starting, and like any vehicle with a key, it's the responsibility of the driver to look after it. On that note however, most WW2 military vehicles that I can think of didn't have a key ignition, for probably the reason that different drivers would use them. Jeeps and Indian motorcycles are two that I can think of that started out with key ignitions, but were soon converted without keys.

As far as the tool box is concerned, I've seen lots of these boxes with the suitcase locks but never seen one with a key. I guess they were soon lost or forgotten about.   Ron

[welbike]

Yes, that's right, the Enfield contracts after this had the locks soon deleted, and a knurled nut installed, have you actually ever seen that Ron?

Here also a picture of the key, tiny thing!! about an inch long.

This bike has magneto ignition, so no need for a key or a kill button, the decompressor is used for that,

Cheers,

Lex

[Ron]

Later contracts were still using the lock box and then went to the knob type. I expect Jan will know roughly when? They used an even different style on the first contract WD/CO before deleting it altogether Ron

Edited March 25, 2020 by Ron

[welbike]

Roger on that! So many changes! And then people are complaining about Matchlesses!

You weren't kidding when you said the filter was a tight fit!!

Lex

[rewdco]

Three types of toolboxes have been used on the WD/C:

• The first type is the pre war toolbox with a key lock. The toolbox was used for storing the tool roll, and being immobilised on a battlefield because you lost your key and couldn’t repair your motorcycle must have been an unpleasant thought...

• The second type looked a lot like the first type, but a knurled screw, to keep the toolbox closed, replaced the key lock... (August 1940 onwards)

• The third type also had a knurled screw, but the lid was bigger than on the second type. (July 1941 onwards). This one was also used briefly on the very first WD/CO models.

 

[rewdco]

And here's the correct key. There is only one lever inside the lock, which means that the key needs a single lip. The beard on Lex' key and on my key have two little prongs that act as a guidance inside the lock, on my key there is even a small lip that acts as a guidance for the lid.

Edited March 25, 2020 by rewdco

[79x100]

The locks were made by Cheney as 'Rewdco' and I have discussed in the past but they no longer have records of these types..Judging by the style, they were probably making locks for Norton too. Rather than providing any great degree of security, they seem to have been more to discourage tampering.

Prior to the fitment of HT cable immobilisers, WD motorcycle toolkits also included a padlock and chain...Mostly 4-lever locks made by Belfry with an integral chain. Once again, the risk of losing the key must have concentrated the mind. We mustn't be too 'precious' about the paintwork on WD bikes 🙂

 

In terms of toolbox lock keys, from 1940 onwards, the Lists of Tools and Equipment state 'To be obtained locally'...presumably every ironmonger had similar keys in stock.

 

[flyingfleasteve]

Hi Gents. Firstly the bike looks fantastic! What a great job!

Just a brief question, fascinated with the variations of tools boxes. Can I assume the first pre war type is also the same as found on the RE Model D? We’re the second types, without lock, ever fitted to the Model D?

Kind regards

Steve 

[Ron]

Only the first type on a WD/D as far as I know Steve. Ron

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Ron

[Chris Hall]

I’ve got the 3 versions of the WD/C and CO tool boxes but there’s even variations  within those.

the WD/D tool box is similar to the early WD/C (and other pre war RE tool boxes) but the positions of the brackets are different. There’s also additional holes in the back of the WD/D tool box for the regulator to bolt to. I think when I talked to Ron about this We realised this was soon changed, probably due to water and crap being thrown Into the internals.

The last version of the CO tool box was reintroduced for the post war bikes but this version requires a little tab on the frame bracket (a bit like a 2 hole mechano piece). Whereas my early (Last version) WD/CO toolbox has the L brackets on the toolbox in such a position that the frame doesn’t require the mechano piece.

[Ron]

Ah yes the brackets are different. Chris can you remind me about the regulator?  Do you think it was relocated at some point? It looks completely safe and shielded, tucked away here. ultimately completely hidden by the battery.

The points cap was another issue that I never resolved "officially" . My version is based on an old RE guy (model D owner) telling me how it was done.  Ron 

[rewdco]

14 hours ago, Ron said:

Only the first type on a WD/D as far as I know Steve. Ron

 

I second that, Ron!

[super6]

Wowsers, thanks fellas. For something so small there are lots of detail changes over the years, understandably.

So with a magneto to stop engine presumably you short the spark plug down to earth somehow as per early lawn mowers?

Just re read Lex's post regarding the decompressor, does this lift one of the valves off of its seat? Inlet or exhaust?

Coil ignition you just switch off as per any modern car?

Paul

[Ron]

Paul no electrical shut down on these. You just operate the valve lifter which lifts the exhaust valve off it's seat (2 strokes have a decompressor  which just opens the cylinder to atmosphere)

The valve lifter is also used for easier starting by allowing you to get the engine past the compression stroke, for a good easy swing on the kickstarter.  Ron 

[welbike]

Ok, sorry, long time, no updates, but since I have the bike at home, I've done 91 miles, and it's a very nice bike to ride!!  have found out about the history as well, and did various technical jobs, I knew that needed to be done.

But the icing on the cake was that the front number plate revealed that this is the bike that Lieutenant Keating was sitting on in June 1940!!! (07-06-1940, thanks Jan!) I tried in various ways to contact his daughter, but no response yet.

Cheers,

Lex

Edited April 27, 2020 by welbike

[Ron]

Well done Lex! If only we could ride our bikes here!

I believe there is some history about Keating?

 

Ron

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ron

[welbike]

Yes, there's a website by his daughter; 

https://rimakeating.co.uk/Geoffrey.J.Keating,MC,PHOTO ARCHIVE.html

And the IWM website mentions him, as he made quite a lot of wartime pictures, in the picture above, he's holding a lumen meter in his hand, to set the shutter speed on the camera, so the question(s) remain, was it his bike that he used during the French campain? or did he just sat on it for the shot?

The bike was found much more southernly then Bresles (roughly between Amiens and Albert) where this was taken, but it must have been on the beach on it's side for some time, as the r/h side has a heavily coroded timing cover, carb and gearbox cover! so it was maybe picked up by a local frenchman, and after the war somehow the wheels got changed to Thriumph ones, and the BSA DeLuxe tank and Norton rear mudguard and carrier also changed, or maybe that was all damaged? we'll never know probably. Also the French documents show 1937, that was possibly done to avoid nasty questions where the bike came from, a bit the same story as Jan's ex B.E.F. WD-C, that had French FN documents from 1928.

Khaki green No.3 visible on the frame, this how the previous owner bought the bike, and before he sprayed it black, so I was told, the French Priest used it to visit people in his Parish.

Cheers,

Lex

Edited April 27, 2020 by welbike
spelling

[PaulJager]

On 3/25/2020 at 2:33 PM, rewdco said:

Three types of toolboxes have been used on the WD/C:

• The first type is the pre war toolbox with a key lock. The toolbox was used for storing the tool roll, and being immobilised on a battlefield because you lost your key and couldn’t repair your motorcycle must have been an unpleasant thought...

• The second type looked a lot like the first type, but a knurled screw, to keep the toolbox closed, replaced the key lock... (August 1940 onwards)

• The third type also had a knurled screw, but the lid was bigger than on the second type. (July 1941 onwards). This one was also used briefly on the very first WD/CO models.

 

This looks really great. Have to take a look at the boxes that came with mine to see if the toolbox is even there. If not, this is definitely something to put on the wanted list. Very nicely done.

[welbike]

Thanks all, here a picture of the front number plate after careful sanding.

Also a couple of pictures from our holidays in Normandy in 2020, much rain, but nice rides!

Done over 900 miles now, bike always starts first or second kick, only downside is, that it's relatively slow, and a bit loud, the internals of the original silencer have long gone, but Jan made me new silencer internals, but now I have to cut the silencer in two, to weld it in, hopefully it can be done without seeing the welds afterwards.

Cheers,

Lex

Edited January 26, 2022 by welbike
Updated pictures

[Chris Hall]

Lex. Can you not cut the end cap of the silencer at the weld, push the new baffle in and re-weld along the old seam? I think my original was in 3 parts, the centre body and 2 end caps. Thinking more about it, I think it was brazed or silver soldered at the joints rather than welded.

[rewdco]

There are (at least) two versions of the WD silencer. The oldest version (as on Lex' bike) is made of 1.6 mm steel, with (conical) welded endcaps, and the complex labyrinth interior (with two perforated tubes and a longitudinal S-shaped baffle plate), as in Lex' picture. Later versions were made of 1 mm steel, with (convex) brazed on endcaps (silver soldered actually), and had a much simpler interior (see pictures below).

It should indeed be possible to cut the endcap off, slip in the new interior, and weld the endcap back on.

Edited January 26, 2022 by rewdco

[Chris Hall]

Agh yes, I must have the latter simpler exhaust.

[PaulJager]

3 hours ago, welbike said:

Thanks all, here a picture of the front number plate after careful sanding.

Also a couple of pictures from our holidays in Normandy in 2020, much rain, but nice rides!

Done over 900 miles now, bike always starts first or second kick, only downside is, that it's relatively slow, and a bit loud, the internals of the original silencer have long gone, but Jan made me new silencer internals, but now I have to cut the silencer in two, to weld it in, hopefully it can be done without seeing the welds afterwards.

Cheers,

Lex

What a very nice looking bike. If I come even a bit close to this I will be very happy. Job well done.

[welbike]

Thanks all! I just checked the silencer, and there's no visible seams, so will cut it at the end of the main body and slide the innards in, and weld them to the inside, and hopefully tack them at the front too, so they won't rattle, and then Tig the end bit on again, and grind all welds, not on my priority list yet though.

Lex