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Pzkpfw-e

Caunter-camouflaged gem at the YWE

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Saw this beauty basking in the sunshine.

DSCN1863.JPG

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Posted (edited)

The tires look good as well.   If they are new production it would be interesting to know where they came from.

Edited by REME 245

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I’m parked next to it and they’re made by Speciality Tires of America.

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Certainly looks very crisp with an interesting choice of camouflage sure to draw a lot of comments. Is it a K30/YK (30-cwt closed cab type) or K2 (2-ton type) K30/YK Bridging Classification is given as 4 while an Austin Tilt (Type not specified?) Bridging Classification is given as 6. K2 Ambulance is also given as 4. The scheme I think used Summer 40 to October 41 often seen on CMP 11&12-Cab vehicles used in the Middle East. October 41. Has the owner any family connection to the colour choice.

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I know the source.   Fantastic tires but very expensive by the time you get them over here.

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Another superb restoration from Melvin Bean and Mike Humphreys.

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It looks too nice.

Wouldn't the original process be to paint the whole truck in stone, and then hand paint the contrast colours over the top by brush?  The neat edges and corners, and almost perfectly straight lines, would surely look strange to someone who painted that scheme originally, by hand.

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This vehicle looks a fantastic restoration, a credit to the people involved.

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As both hand and spray painting took place does it matter l seen examples of first class looking paint work from both any one can nit pick my self included

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

As both hand and spray painting took place does it matter l seen examples of first class looking paint work from both any one can nit pick my self included

Not really Wally and it does look good.  I suppose the point would remain that even if it were to be sprayed it is unlikely they would have masked it off to get sharp edges - not if they had another five hundred trucks to paint.  If I had to go positive, does anyone have any contemporary images of that paint scheme, so we can assess how sharp ( or approximate ) the edges were?  I've not seen very many original images.

Edited by Gordon_M

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30 seconds of Googling “Caunter Scheme” will pull up any number of photos showing the hard straight edges used in this scheme. The Austin is a superb recreation of this short lived camouflage, using the correct colours of Portland Stone, Silver grey and Service colour or slate

Incidentally that photo of a CMP truck in Caunter thought to be an original contemporary colour photo is apparently a still from a recent Czech film

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There is IWM film, I saw it a few years go, of troops painting these vehicles in Egypt. From memory they were using 2 to 4 inch brushes.

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Yes it's up for sale - what a surprise - no indication of price – sorry if I appear cynical I’m curious - was it restored to use and enjoy or a means to an end - it looks a very good restoration with a very precise paint job was this chosen as a lure to get attention and bring in the bidders -I can't find any photo evidence of Austin K30's (open or closed cab) used in the desert at that time - but I would love to see a genuine photo of one there at the time in the colours portrayed on this vehicle – the I.W.M film of vehicles being painted in the above camouflage is titled ROYAL ARMY ORDNANCE CORPS IN NORTH AFRICA and runs for seven min’s or so it can be found on the I.W.M website – worth watching as it includes Bedford Aero Screen MW’s Morris Commercials armoured cars RR and Humber – overall sand/light stone sprayed over what appears UK spec colour all painted outside – camouflage applied inside a warehouse using what appear to be normal domestic 3 or 4-inch brushes without any masking whatsoever – all by eye – take a look and enjoy

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I do not think it matters either way, the fact is there is now a vehicle that has been preserved in pristine condition. Peoples circumstances change over time. Some hand painted lines can always be introduced. Some ordinary people can paint straight lines without any aids. Just enjoy the vehicle, whatever the price is I would bet It does not cover the full cost of restoration, if all of the time and materials workshop costs as well as buying the vehicle in the first place were properly included.

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1 minute ago, john1950 said:

I do not think it matters either way, the fact is there is now a vehicle that has been preserved in pristine condition. Peoples circumstances change over time. Some hand painted lines can always be introduced. Some ordinary people can paint straight lines without any aids. Just enjoy the vehicle, whatever the price is I would bet It does not cover the full cost of restoration, if all of the time and materials workshop costs as well as buying the vehicle in the first place were properly included.

Is the vehicle correct for the period its depicting the census number indicates its from batch 4474335 to 4475035 allocated to contract V.3903 Austin Lorry 30-cwt 4x2 G.S and not from a block of census numbers issued to Middle East Command and applied in theater as was usual. Undoubtedly it looks a good restoration as I have said before to me and it's my opinion the vehicle is post the date depicted. Regardless of anything else what it makes will only reflect what the byer is prepared to pay but I believe strongly in portraying vehicles as they were when in service. And yes I know the cost of restoring vehicles both my own those I have done for my friends and yes those I have assisted with in museums for more years than I care to count

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This is an open ended debate, It goes back to the old question of what constitutes a restoration. A sensus number is a clue in the mosaic of the full picture. At sometime in service I have no doubt that a vehicle like that will have existed. I am just pleased a vehicle in that condition is around now to be talked about. As old spec paints become unobtainable and colour matches become more difficult we may just have to say they did their best. No more Lead in paint or plastic, No Asbestos, I used to be involved with a project to collect cenespheres from a power station lagooon and they went to manufacture high quality insulation material. It is a hobby and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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1 hour ago, john1950 said:

This is an open ended debate, It goes back to the old question of what constitutes a restoration. A sensus number is a clue in the mosaic of the full picture. At sometime in service I have no doubt that a vehicle like that will have existed. I am just pleased a vehicle in that condition is around now to be talked about. As old spec paints become unobtainable and colour matches become more difficult we may just have to say they did their best. No more Lead in paint or plastic, No Asbestos, I used to be involved with a project to collect cenespheres from a power station lagooon and they went to manufacture high quality insulation material. It is a hobby and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Going off topic a little you are posing a new question in what constitutes a restoration. Purely my interpretation in broad terms are retaining as much of the original as possible. Using like for like new old stock if possible, replacement/repaired body panels of the same as original material and method of fixing, or if totally as was in service conserve rather than restore. Do the best you can with what you have after all conserving a shrinking piece of history for whatever drives you finical gain or personal satisfaction offering something purporting to be something it is not well that’s not for me. Regarding census numbers on vehicle anyone with access to a Chilwell list you can chose any number you like from 1 to 62777385 a valid contract number stamped plate a nod in the right direction. I reiterate the vehicle at the head of this post as I have said several times looks good and one I would show more than a passing interest in if I were to see it at a show

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Just noticed the asking price for this vehicle very deep pockets £22.500 an eye watering amount 

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31 minutes ago, Baz48 said:

Just noticed the asking price for this vehicle very deep pockets £22.500 an eye watering amount 

Since there are Willy's Jeeps on there, for up to £25k, then I suppose it's not that much. 

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Posted (edited)

This would have come of the production line Green,  when camouflage paint was added, would that be applied to the inside of the cab, front axle etc, I think not,    All K2Y Ambulances were green, and if painted sand, surely only surfaces visible to the enemy would receive attention,  A big problem now when restoring such a vehicle is,  you would to have to do the unthinkable and finish in green and then RUSH a coat of required camouflage colour, either brush or spray, no masking (perhaps a bit of card and a well painted hand if blowing it on) and that its. That's NOT something anyone could to bring themselves to do, so I guess TOTAL authenticity will never again be seen. Well that's the way I see it.     I in my time had to decide if  having finished a vehicle in Green, I had the guts to get a spray gun out a blast Sand on the outside and bits you can see. Sadly I could not have lived with that.

011 (2).jpg

Edited by k2lofty

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34 minutes ago, Pzkpfw-e said:

Since there are Willy's Jeeps on there, for up to £25k, then I suppose it's not that much. 

Asking price and price sold at are two totally different things there are several vehicles up-for sale on Milweb again that did not reach the asking price first time around or second and in some cases almost annually. Realistic with the price and it will go or am I correct in my assumption some vehicles are done purely for the financial gain

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28 minutes ago, k2lofty said:

This would have come of the production line Green,  when camouflage paint was added, would that be applied to the inside of the cab, front axle etc, I think not,    All K2Y Ambulances were green, and if painted sand, surely only surfaces visible to the enemy would receive attention,  A big problem now when restoring such a vehicle is,  you would to have to do the unthinkable and finish in green and then RUSH a coat of required camouflage colour, either brush or spray, no masking (perhaps a bit of card and a well painted hand if blowing it on) and that its. That's NOT something anyone could to bring themselves to do, so I guess TOTAL authenticity will never again be seen. Well that's the way I see it

The contract date is stated as April 1940 manufactured date could be anytime after that in some cases a year or more after issue, film and anecdotal evidence backs the above comment regarding the underside of the chassis inside the cab and  engine bay being left in the colour it was when it arrived in theater, as was the case when my late father arrived in Egypt 41 with there AEC Matadors all areas on the outside and above painted sand inside left Brown - still it looks nice so who cares about authenticity 

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My comment was in no way a criticism of the above restoration, just an observation,  It remains a tough call to do it in the way it was done back in the day.

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