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2 hours ago, TooTallMike said:

Frustrating indeed and I didn't know that was how it works for a 1st test. We have all that to look forward to in a few months with my mate's Berliet wrecker...

 - MG

It may be better for you if you are known by the folk at the ATF and they accept that you have paid DVSA.

The application was quite straight forward. I filled in as much of the form as I could and include some pages of data and dimensional drawing from the manul. The form asks for axle loading but the manual only gives front axle and rear bogie weights but the data pages helped there. Also the truck fell into the catagory of requiring a chassis plate with axle data but never had one, that was OK.

DVSA now have a technical file and use that instead of plating apparently.

The tech department were available on the phone or email to help and were very good. Not such a bad process other than the billing....

 

Iain

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:15 PM, david56 said:

I am attempting to MOT my Renault Maxter as we speak. 

As far as I can see it is in the original condition but there is plenty of things that were missing when new that it now needs. 

Like marker lights on the rear and three point seat belts. Also the spray suppression on the rear wheels is not wide enough. 

The biggie is at some point the passenger head light was replaced with one from a Left Hand drive truck. The correct one is now unobtainable not new or second hand. 

Buying it could have been a massive mistake. 

I understand that the DAFs did not conform to the regulations when they were new and now need quite a lot of work to get them through the MOT. 

Older vehicles might be easier. 

It has been suggested that the Maxter used a Magnum headlamp, have you looked into that?  There was also a Maxter available with four round headlamps. 

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On 8 March 2019 at 11:05 AM, attleej said:

John,

 

As others have said, check for glaze on linings.  As for air brake system pressure, this is crucial.  Make sure that the unloader valve is cutting out at, at least, the maximum pressure stated in the manual.  I have an EMER and can look it up if you need.the correct figure.  I think that it should be at least 100 psi.

The next point is to fit an air pressure gauge to read the pressure at the front air actuator cylinder.   It is possible that a relay valve is not applying absolutely full pressure to the front cylinders.  With the brake pedal fully depressed, you should get full reservoir pressure at the cylinders.

John 

Hi John

I checked pressure at the actuator and it mirrors closely what the system gauges show, so I'm happy with that. The unloader valve I was less happy with as the pressure drops too low and struggles to come back up and then it goes to over 120 psi.

Ive now changed the unloader valve for a new one I had in stock (as you do) and it maintains pressure perfectly, pressure builds faster too. Good call.

Now  with the liners deglazed and pressure sorted out I should be OK, but only one way to tell and that's on Friday. What more can I do....

 

Iain

 

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On 3/8/2019 at 11:49 AM, Mk3iain said:

Thanks,

Its what the examiner suggested, as the service brake came out as a general fail he felt improving the front brakes should be enough.

looking at the test printout the measured vehicle weight is noted as 23500 kg. I take it the test machine is working this out itself, it's more that I had thought by 2500kg.

Iain

From memory the kerb weight was a smidge over 21t and about 23.5t with full C.E.S.

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21 minutes ago, radiomike7 said:

From memory the kerb weight was a smidge over 21t and about 23.5t with full C.E.S.

That machine is way too clever....

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"What more can I do"

Famous last words.  I am now going around the whole brake system adjusting and generally fettling. I had a diaphragm fail on the mid axle so changed both and took out the pound or so of wet sand in each of the actuators. These are the only ones I haven't already had off so should help as the sand was stopping full movement. Also had a brake light switch start leaking and changed that. Now working on a seized adjuster on the back axle. It all should help.

Iain

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"What more can I do"

Famous last words.  I am now going around the whole brake system adjusting and generally fettling. I had a diaphragm fail on the mid axle so changed both and took out the pound or so of wet sand in each of the actuators. These are the only ones I haven't already had off so should help as the sand was stopping full movement. Also had a brake light switch start leaking and changed that. Now working on a seized adjuster on the back axle. It all should help.

Iain

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When I was in the vintage bus restoration game, the worst words I would dread from an owner was "It hasn't done many miles since last years MOT".... First thing we'd then do was strip the wheels and drums off and un-seize all the brake shoe pivots and then go from there.  The telltale for the state of the brake system on a Routmaster was if the handbrake came up a lot more than 3 clicks, then it hadn't had any maintenance. 

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On 7 March 2019 at 8:51 PM, david56 said:

This LGV mot is much more serious, and expensive than the car one. 

I have just had my Renault Maxter pre MOTed and it has thrown up a whole load of things I never expected to be a problem

Most are easy to fix , missing rear marker lights, spare wheel (which affects the side bars) , a missing exhaust bracket, an air leak from the drivers seat and the spray suppression mud guards are not widenough  

Others not so easy an air leak from the brake master cylinder and most problematical of all it has a left hand drive headlight.

I cannot find a right hand drive one. I have tried Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, India to no avail. I don’t know what to do next. 

My thoughts are re fabricating the front bumper so as to fit Military 24v Landrover lights. Should look ok. Or cutting the end off the bumpers and welding in the ends from something much younger probably a DAF with a steel bumper. 

Hey ho when I do sort out all this then at lest it will be done for good. 

David. 

Ps anybody got a 10 stud wheel and legal tyre  size not important they could sell me. 

CD243E94-E0F6-46AF-97AA-9BC7E9341C21.jpeg

David, this may not be relevant or possibly overtaken by new regs, but in the past I have had an Armstrong motorcycle (ex BAOR) and a grey import m/c, both with continental dipping headlights, but passed the MoT as they had beam converters (black tape applied to the glass to cut off the wrongly angled dip beam).  The MoT certificate made note of the converters.

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It’s a thought but I have discovered that the dodge RB44 used the same headlights so I am looking at that. 

The best permanent solution is probably to change the lights for Land Rover ones a little bit of fabrication and a few hours with the angle grinder should do it. 

I am very nervous of the HGV MOT testers. 

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After all the work on the brake system it really paid off and I should have done it anyway. A couple of brakes that had maxed at around 1100kg were up to 2200kg so quite a difference and brought them all up to the same range. So much so the tyres were skidding on the rollers at times, they are a bit big for the rollers.

The problem was lack of use, quite common according to the examiners.

Everything else was good so that was that, at last.

Iain

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Hello Iain,

I've been following this with interest as think it will affect more vehicles than most of us ever thought. Could you tell me whether the MK3 Militant still used UNF bolts etc or if it had gone metric by then. Need to assist an owner with some work on his and would be useful to know upfront.

 

Thanks

Mike.

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Hi Mike

Every bolt or screw I have come across has been unified thread except of course pipe fittings etc which so far have been BSP. UNF for screws and bolts, UNC for studs usually.

They were made during a time of change and some metric turning up would not have supprised me but it's all old school. I perticularly like unified for some reason.

Ill put together a guide to how I found the "first test" procedure and relevant points and  requirements.

If this helps anyone that would make it worthwhile.

Iain

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Thanks so much for your story it has been very useful and certainly focuses the mind. 

I am sure there are lots of problems around the lack of use of brakes  

It takes months to get a test date. But it seems like retests are much easier. Am I right ?

in the MOT manual it talks about wheels that lock during the brake test. They seem to want to add weights so that the weight goes up to between 50& 65% of the gross weight. 

Unless the truck has fitted plant. Then they might use a tapley deaccelerometer  

Did they add weights to your AEC. 

David. 

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37 minutes ago, david56 said:

Thanks so much for your story it has been very useful and certainly focuses the mind. 

I am sure there are lots of problems around the lack of use of brakes  

It takes months to get a test date. But it seems like retests are much easier. Am I right ?

in the MOT manual it talks about wheels that lock during the brake test. They seem to want to add weights so that the weight goes up to between 50& 65% of the gross weight. 

Unless the truck has fitted plant. Then they might use a tapley deaccelerometer  

Did they add weights to your AEC. 

David. 

I'm glad it's been of some use, no point everyone struggling unnecessarily.

The initial test is applied for direct to DVSA using a VTG1 and then booked at the ATF, retest and any future test will just be a call to the ATF. I found that my ATF booked about a week or so ahead. Remember you have 14 working days to retest.

The Mk3 Recovery has a declared GVW of about 20t but the measured weight was 23500kg. The calculations for brake effort used the GVW so no need to add weight. A cargo truck requiring weight would be down to the owner/operator presenting the vehicle fully prepared with the weight onboard and secured.

This ATF and the DVSA examiner did not have a Tapley, so no option other than the roller road.

Once you know the system it's not a problem.

The only hassle for me was the cost, it's £179 per full test, £73 for a retest. As I had my first test abandoned due to a stuck dif lock it was a second full test at the full charge, it soon adds up.

I hope that helps.

Iain

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Ian,

on the VTG1 it asks for the test centre and date and time.  Did you leave this blank?  Or had you sorted out the test before  

do I understand the GVW is less than the actual weight or is the 23,000kg some sort of calculated theoretical weight for brake testing  

david  

 

 

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27 minutes ago, david56 said:

Ian,

on the VTG1 it asks for the test centre and date and time.  Did you leave this blank?  Or had you sorted out the test before  

do I understand the GVW is less than the actual weight or is the 23,000kg some sort of calculated theoretical weight for brake testing  

david  

 

 

Hi David

You can nominate an  ATF that you chose, I suppose the nearest, and leave the time and date. The application will be looked at and they will let you know if it is OK for you to go ahead, you can then get in touch with the ATF and book. DVSA will take your test fee £113 and give you a reference number hopefully the ATF will accept this and just charge a lane fee. They may charge the test fee again but this can be claimed back from DVSA, not a good system.

The 23500kg is what the roller road calculated from the measured axel weights.

Iain

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ok, so now I'm stressed!!!!

 

I've just taxed my Milly (86 ET 47) online and done the MOT exempt declaration as prompted on the web site.  I now have until the end of the month to get Odd Job ready and i don't think that will be possible.

So Iain, i have to fill out a VTG1, send it in with £113, book with a local DVSA/approved examiner for a test, wait for the initial fail (and i bet she does), remedy the problems and then re-test?

Frantically biting my finger nails!!!

Ian.

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19 minutes ago, narune said:

ok, so now I'm stressed!!!!

 

I've just taxed my Milly (86 ET 47) online and done the MOT exempt declaration as prompted on the web site.  I now have until the end of the month to get Odd Job ready and i don't think that will be possible.

So Iain, i have to fill out a VTG1, send it in with £113, book with a local DVSA/approved examiner for a test, wait for the initial fail (and i bet she does), remedy the problems and then re-test?

Frantically biting my finger nails!!!

Ian.

PM sent.

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Hi, you also need to find your nearest HGV mot station in order to fill in the form.  I would check on the waiting list, they can be quite long.

You could find a commercial vehicle garage  who can do a pre MOT so you get an idea what is needed. 

David. 

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Hi All

For the avoidance of doubt and to dispel some misinformation out there.

All vehicles of this type now need an MOT, the only exemptions are, pre 1960 not used commercially and STG (the big specials).

No other!  Forget what it was based on.

I have pursued this with DVSA and they are quite clear that there are no other exemptions.

Since the rolling 40 year rule for vehicles under 3.5 t it may be possible to make an online declaration (I did but I had an MOT), but it would be a false declaration and they are aware the system is allowing this.

Be careful folks

Iain

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Posted (edited)

I recently did an online DVLA check on various large, over 3.5t post 1960's MV's seen at shows, they had all recently been taxed with no recorded MOT, quite a few vehicles the V5 information showed no recorded revenue weight,... a search of 5 post 1960 Militants checked had recorded weight at 21000kg but had all been taxed recently by DVLA with No recorded MOT !

Edited by Nick Johns

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It beggars belief, why avoid what is legally required and at the standard these are tested at if it won't pass an MOT it is most likely unsafe.

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