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bobs1918

FWD gets new shoes

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Posted (edited)

I have read that a lot of war suprplus FWD Model Bs lost their engines to those "hotrodders" driving Stutz Bearcats. From what I remember, the only real difference in the engines was that the Stutz had a larger bore carburetor and spun up a little faster. Maybe some difference in the mags, though I recall less about that. Too busy this morning to dig out those files.

Edited by 4x4Founder

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Looking at the specs for the Wisconsin "B"

Bore: 4-1/4"

Stroke: 5"

The bores are offset from the crank centerline by 3/4" towards the exhaust side.

Total weight: 475 lbs

HP. (ALAM rating) 28.9 hp The ALAM ratings are archaic and its hard to convert to anything meaningful. A graph within the same Wisconsin catalog show approx. 46 hp @ 1,600 rpm

In their day they were indeed light, perky engines and when coupled to a minimalist chassis such as the Bearcat you had a real thrilling ride. No doubt lightening the flywheel and playing with the carb and timing would help as well. A twin spark setup was a hot ticket and was well worth the effort. However, like most low rpm engines back then it wasn't about horsepower but torque.

I don't have the figures for the model "B" but my 6 cylinder PT generates just shy of 600 ft/lbs at 800 rpm yet is rated at only 104 hp.

I am loving watching this project come together!

Best regards,

Terry

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Tharper said:

Looking at the specs for the Wisconsin "B"

Bore: 4-1/4"

Stroke: 5"

The bores are offset from the crank centerline by 3/4" towards the exhaust side.

Total weight: 475 lbs

HP. (ALAM rating) 28.9 hp The ALAM ratings are archaic and its hard to convert to anything meaningful. A graph within the same Wisconsin catalog show approx. 46 hp @ 1,600 rpm

In their day they were indeed light, perky engines and when coupled to a minimalist chassis such as the Bearcat you had a real thrilling ride. No doubt lightening the flywheel and playing with the carb and timing would help as well. A twin spark setup was a hot ticket and was well worth the effort. However, like most low rpm engines back then it wasn't about horsepower but torque.

I don't have the figures for the model "B" but my 6 cylinder PT generates just shy of 600 ft/lbs at 800 rpm yet is rated at only 104 hp.

I am loving watching this project come together!

Best regards,

Terry

 

 

 

 

What year catalog is that from?  I see a couple of different power ratings, one as high as 58 hp @ 1700 (brake) in a Mercer (per  Langworth's Mercer history) and one resources lists 60 hp for the Stutz. The Stromberg on the FWD unit had a 1.5-in. bore.  I was looking for the materials on the Stutz or Mercer carbs, but I have evidently filed them too well.  I hate to quote from my feeble memory but 1.75 inches keeps coming into my head.

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10 hours ago, 4x4Founder said:

I have read that a lot of war suprplus FWD Model Bs lost their engines to those "hotrodders" driving Stutz Bearcats. From what I remember, the only real difference in the engines was that the Stutz had a larger bore carburetor and spun up a little faster. Maybe some difference in the mags, though I recall less about that. Too busy this morning to dig out those files.

And  they  removed  the  governor!!

 

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went  to visit my  parts  chassis  and body  today.  Removed  what  was left of  the  step bracket  as  my  FWD  has  none.  I  will  fabricate  the  step with  welded  steel and  not   have  a  casting  made.   

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Quote

What year catalog is that from?

1914. That very well could be Brake H.P. as opposed to gross. A period test on a 1915 Stutz chassis listed an average BHP of 47.8 @ 1,235 rpm. Max. Torque was 209 ft/lbs. @ 1,052 RPM.

 

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Posted (edited)

874473286_IMG_7969(2).thumb.JPG.d7b4ea3f231e2dc092ae92a746bf5ff5.JPGRather  than  fabricate   a  new step I  had  the  opportunity  to   borrow  an  original   step . Used  as  a pattern  I  had  a    had a  new  step   cast  in  bronze  (for   strength) using  an  existing  the original  as   pattern. Cylinder jugs  installed  Pistons  in   Rod  bearings honed, upper water  manifold  installed, valve shrouds  and  clips  one  side  done (Thanks  to  Terry Harper  and  Tim Gosling), Radiator  apart  and   to be  pressure  tested  soon the  tanks were   caked  solid  with mouse  nest but  the cooling  tubes  look  good. Exhaust manifold,pipe and  muffler have  been  installed.  Good  news  is  I  have  compression  and   good  spark!!!

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Edited by bobs1918
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That's a hundred years of mouse right there, but they made trucks to last in those days.

Got an overall image of it please, just to see progress?

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You are making some serious progress. Awesome work on that fine, old FWD!

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Bob,

That all looks fantastic! Its great to see the valve shrouds and clips in place and

so glad we could help! I am looking forward to sharing the photos with my students.

I really love these projects!

 

Best regards,

Terry

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FWD  update. We  have   dissasembled  the  radiator   and  repaired  2  leaking  tubes. One   leaking  tube  was interior  and  opted  to  simply   plug  it.  Reaasembled   and  installed  it.  Had a   new step   cast    from a pattern   taken  from   another  FWD. Used cast  bronze  for  strength.   Have nearly  completed  reassembly  of  engine  components   but  a  bit   baffled  by  the   accelerator  linkage.  I  hope  to  get   some    pictures  from  other  vehicles  in  the  US  and  UK  for  comparison.  We  have   good  spark  and  compression   and   expect  to  have  it   running  soon.  I  am  at  the  three  year  mark. The  body   is   ready   to   be  straightened   in  spots   and   then   resandblasted and  painted   IMG_0090.thumb.JPG.18ae01a9e772d3a1ac073926a8616cac.JPG

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It is looking really nice. Do you know which company made the workshop body for it. There should have been an ordnance plate on it but that may have disappeared. There is a similar bodied FWD out in California. I cannot remember the name of the owner. Have you made contact with him?

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Posted (edited)

Thanks a great  looking  truck that  I  was  not  aware of.   Name  looks   like Bill  Carver but  I  cannot   be certain.

Yes  there is    data  plate  on  the  body but  I  dont  recall  the  makers name  . Somewhere  there  is   a picture  of  it.

It  is   about  80 miles  from   here  so cannot  easily  snap   a new  foto.

Edited by bobs1918

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A  little   research   found  that  the  owner of  this   truck  Bill Leuer, passed  away   in 2017. The  truck  is  a   Kissel  built   FWD  as is  mine.  It  also   has  the  Machine  shop body  although I  cannot  tell  which  type  as  there  were   at  least   2   varieties.

 

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That is a shame about Bill. I think he had two more FWD's. Have you had any contact with a Ron Brasil who I think had six Model B's?

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Well to  update my  repair  attempt  on  the  radiator  was  unsuccessful. Still  leaked  badly Pulled  it  out  again  and  brought  it  to  a  professional. I  wanted  to  keep  the   appearance  of  the  core as original  as possible.  New   spiral fin tubes  were quoted at  $6500 USD  for the  tubes only.....Not going  to  do  that  so  we  used the  best  looking  original  tubes  on  the  sides  and  front and  put a  modern  tube and fin  design  behind  it. Had  to  repaint  the  shroud  as  the  paint  I gave  the   radiator shop   was  off  in  color  the  last picture is  the  repainted   shroud.

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Edited by bobs1918
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  • It looks great Bob. You did the right thing. There are several FWD's with a completely modern core and they just dont look right.
  • You asked about spare U Joint grease cups. Sadly we dont have any. In fact Steve had to make a replacement as they do get lost.

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Bob, I agree. That is a fantastic compromise. YOu are doing that truck right!

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Thanks  Jim we actually we  intended  to  make the  original  tubes functional  but  they  were  so  compromised  that   we  plugged  them  and  they  are  for  appearance  only

 

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7 hours ago, Great War truck said:
  • It looks great Bob. You did the right thing. There are several FWD's with a completely modern core and they just dont look right.
  • You asked about spare U Joint grease cups. Sadly we dont have any. In fact Steve had to make a replacement as they do get lost.

Thanks  for  checking   we are making  one  as  we  speak.  . 3  out of  4  U joints  came  apart   easily. that  left  one  that  was seized  and  we  had to  drill  out  the   locking  pin. We then   redrilled  the  holes   to  5/16 inch. It  had been 1/4  inch before  the  drill out. We  replaced  the  pin with a  5/16th one. As you know  plenty  of  material  there  to  work  with .

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well  finally  got  the  body  sand  blasted  again. I  was  never  able  to  prep  it    last  year   so I  had it  redone  and  then  within  48  hours  I   epoxy   primered  it  and   got  it  painted   

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I  think  I  figured  out  the  purpose of  the  wooden  sections  on  the side of  the  body. I believe  that  these  prevented  the  chains  from   making  a  lot  of   chatter   when  they    slam   against   the   side.  

 

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Also  had  time   to   restore  the   seat  bucket. I  Cot  off  the   bottom  4inches   all  around  except   for   3  inches   in  the  front  on  both sides. I I  had   a  replica  of  the  rusted missing  metal  fabricated with  an   offset  at  the  top.  I   used   blind   countersunk   rivets   to  attach and  then  did  the appropriate body  work  to   hide  the  repair  

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Edited by bobs1918
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