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Well done Gordon I guessed you'd be out there somewhere in cyber space,

fully agree with you that the rear position stamping for the frame number is a British addition and I wonder if it may have been done post war when the new  two number, two letter, two number system came into force. 

 Your observation about panel vans will also apply to any other body type in the Canadian range with the exception of Tankers where the rear top face of the frame is fully exposed.

I'll have a good look in the morning in the front area you suggest but I'm pretty sure there is nothing there,

Pete

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No problem Pete.  The chassis part number was machine stamped and is always clear and legible, the chassis number itself seems to have been stamped by someone with a number block, and I'm guessing that after he had stamped the first thousand chassis in a shift his enthusiasm was maybe a little low.  The chassis number can be really difficult to see as it was often faint to begin with.

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Pete, the 110 is coming on slowly, the engine is finally completed along with the front axle, the rear hubs are next on the list so that a rolling chassis can built up, meanwhile I have been working on the Tilly, I have also recently bought another 110L (imported) which was the reason behind the chassis number question.

Your truck looks to be progressing well.

If it helps what I believe to be the chassis number on the latest Dodge is on the front left hand leg between the front spring hanger and the shock absorber, however the Chassis number of T110L135175C doesn’t match any of the numbers listed in the manual I have, I know of another 110 of which the chassis number starts with the T110L and ends with ‘C’ neither vehicle has any data plates for age verification.

I am wondering if there was another list of numbers which ended with the ‘C’ (presumably for Canadian), the engine number starts with 110L and also ends with ‘C’

You may find some numbers on the front of each chassis leg forward of the spring hangers which I believe are part numbers.

best regards Kevin

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Hi Pete,

I think you'll find there's a number stamped into the front near side of the chassis, in the vicinity of the rear spring hanger IIRC, though rather than being the chassis number it's actually the original engine number (I still have the original engine here, though it will require a full rebuild).

Regards,

Matt.

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Thanks for the input chaps very interesting........ so Iv'e found my glasses and got the magnifying glass out here's what I've come with:

8 hours ago, M.Rimmer said:

(Hi Pete,

I think you'll find there's a number stamped into the front near side of the chassis, in the vicinity of the rear spring hanger IIRC, though rather than being the chassis number it's actually the original engine number

Regards,

Matt.

Your right Matt on both counts, it is located where you suggest  and it is the engine number according to the cab plates.

 I have not noticed it before  as it is rather faint.  It's located on the right hand rail just above the front spring rear hanger here's a photo that I've messed about with to try to bring it out more.

it reads:  T222 29865 C

1576968142_rightrail.JPG.1a6b7f97e8aadcf99dedf2ba504ef41e.JPG

 

8 hours ago, 253cmg said:

If it helps what I believe to be the chassis number on the latest Dodge is on the front left hand leg between the front spring hanger and the shock absorber, however the Chassis number of T110L135175C doesn’t match any of the numbers listed in the manual I have, I know of another 110 of which the chassis number starts with the T110L and ends with ‘C’ neither vehicle has any data plates for age verification.

I am wondering if there was another list of numbers which ended with the ‘C’ (presumably for Canadian), the engine number starts with 110L and also ends with ‘C’

You may find some numbers on the front of each chassis leg forward of the spring hangers which I believe are part numbers.

best regards Kevin

 

16 hours ago, Gordon_M said:

 The chassis part number was machine stamped and is always clear and legible, the chassis number itself seems to have been stamped by someone with a number block, and I'm guessing that after he had stamped the first thousand chassis in a shift his enthusiasm was maybe a little low.  The chassis number can be really difficult to see as it was often faint to begin with.

Well chaps there is nothing there on my frame that would relate to a part number which from my Jan 1943 T222 parts list is as follows, 929030 Right rail, 929031 Left rail.

What is there as clear as a bell is this 2/41 up side down on both left and right rails  see photos below, also just near to the numbers are what look like a pair of little shields stamped in..... are these the checkers marks you were referring to Gordon ?

Right rail

1645711604_righthandrail.JPG.d8ffb1fd0b74176a41869ac538a3299d.JPG

 

Left rail

1839070981_Lefthandrail.JPG.0cee19c36beb5ff3043f7ffe4a154b74.JPG

The number on the rear of the frame wont photograph clearly unfortunately but it is as follows, 91069764 which is the frame number stamped onto the cab plates and also the Dodge Brothers data plate on the door frame, see below.

SDC18274.jpg.07cb8ebad20086d16fbe08367e9c6239.jpg

I don't think any of this has answered your original question,  in fact it seems to have muddied the waters somewhat as is oft the way I'm afraid

Pete

 

 

Edited by Pete Ashby
missing word

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Somewhat clearer.

 

The T222 number is the frame number, no doubt, and 2/41 has to be the date, and the small shield is the inspectors acceptance stamp too.

The 910xxxx number is the formal chassis number, so the method of marking and location has to be different between Canadian and US output.

 

As long as you have one of this on the V55 you'll be fine.  8-)

Quote

 

 

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Well we’re still here in the Wild West despite gales and biblical amounts of rain, keeping dry was high on the agenda so it was shut the workshop door tight and get on with the D15.

The last entry in the blog showed axles and back plates fitted since then I have honed the rear wheel cylinders and fitted new seals and pistons. The rear brake hangers and linings were in near new condition so they were reused and fitted after the anchor pins and adjusters were cleaned with the threads chased and greased with copper grease so that everything worked as it should.

SDC18745.JPG.de25f943fdaeee9a7502ba0532366ad3.JPG

It was a different story with the front shoes these were worn and contaminated and the cylinders seized in the bores new linings and hangers and cylinders were obtained and fitted and again the anchors and adjusters were cleaned and greased before fitting.

SDC18749.JPG.e95d701df56550c2453c753690902052.JPG

Next job was to clean and check the brake drums which were all good with no scoring or pitting and then clean and check inner and outer wheel bearings and races for each hub, everything checked out just fine so it was repack with new grease and fit onto the axles then fit the wheels and new tyres onto the hubs.

SDC18756.JPG.d757d7ea99d805a7188d430818035048.JPG

SDC18761.JPG.f7bcef2bc552bb932a851141b0301199.JPG

SDC18760.JPG.c87320eb8f4d16859b42ea8c39fc6e75.JPG

 

To finish this phase of the restoration the steering box was cleaned, taken apart, checked for condition and once again found to have virtually no ware so it was painted and bolted onto the frame.

Effort will now be switched back to the Retriever until the beginning of summer when work will focus on the cab.  

Pete

 

 

Edited by Pete Ashby
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Looking good

By the way what is this tool used for?, hand made?, help putting the brake shoes on ?

DST15.JPG.ab5c33bdb05a6bfbed07523b80b0c0d0.JPG

Cheers

Richard

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47 minutes ago, 64EK26 said:

Looking good

By the way what is this tool used for?, hand made?, help putting the brake shoes on ?
 

Cheers

Richard

Brake spring pliers I think, Richard - I keep meaning to buy a set, rather than resorting to screwdrivers, normal pliers & swear-words each time... 😄

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1 hour ago, 64EK26 said:

Looking good

By the way what is this tool used for?, hand made?, help putting the brake shoes on ?

DST15.JPG.ab5c33bdb05a6bfbed07523b80b0c0d0.JPG

Cheers

Richard

The modern version brake return spring pliers

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CT4398-220mm-Long-Brake-Drum-Return-Spring-Pliers/123323964439?epid=2156927503&hash=item1cb6ae5c17:g:KgoAAOSwQq1be7XH

Edited by Nick Johns
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Yep,  brake spring pliers Richard as 11th Armoured confirms. 

I bought these probably more than 35 years ago they are US military issue.   Makes a difficult job both easy and safe for removing and/or replacing the brake return spring.   This set has a flue machined into the bottom of one handle so that you can leaver the hook of the spring out of the hole in the hanger during removal.

Pete 

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Posted (edited)

Having come to a bit of a standstill on the Leyland as I await the restrictions to ease so that I can get some blast cleaning done I turned back to the D15 and looked for a job that could be done while on lock down.

The windscreen looked like a not too demanding task so I collected from the barn all the various component parts sealed in bags and tins and started having a look at what I'd got.   Thanks to Matt (who is on this forum and the previous owner but one ) when he took things apart he stored them carefully in tins and bags and the next owner kept everything together unopened and what a good job they did as it soon became apparent the  windscreen on a Dodge closed cab is made up of a number of very small parts.

So the starting point was the the upper and lower frames that had already been taken apart

SDC18639.JPG.58c389bdcdff1e4b11efabdfab149f16.JPG

 

Although the frames look rusty in the above photo in actual fact they were in good sound condition and the corrosion was only superficial so I decided to use a fine wire wheel on the angle grinder.

Bottom frame done top one to do

SDC18783.JPG.7cb2beb7fc8a702ca45b0d1144678db2.JPG 

 

bottom frame in etch primer

SDC18784.JPG.ee40462e07a1c79d30fc35b3481be785.JPG

 

Both top and bottom frame given a coat of etch primer then a gloss black under coat then two coats of G3

SDC18786.JPG.8996616ce8ca660a92b60372faa464cf.JPG

 

This next photo shows the frames and all the associated hardware minus the two hinge plates that are still attached to the roof of the cab at the moment.

SDC18799.JPG.0cf586aad136f83a54ebf0a0c4991b49.JPG

 

For the benefit of my son David who has two of these screens to rebuild  and anyone else who is interested I have labeled up the screen hardware in the next two photos all these parts had a good soaking in the Molasses bath for a couple of weeks , a wash in water a quick wire brush and my standard paint finish all threads have been chased through with a tap and a smear of copper grease worked into the threads with a modelling brush.

First photo of the larger bits numbers in red: 

1 Windshield center piece moulding  part no 844776.    This clips over the outside of the center pillar I was really surprised to find this level of trim on an MV produced mid war and had to check the parts in my Jan 43 parts list its also in an Aug 44 copy for the LWB  3ton truck as well so it appears to have been a fixture right through the range for the duration of the war,  Dodge obviously cared about design over functionality,  surprising when compared to Chevrolet or Ford CMP's of a similar period where if it's not strictly necessary you don't get it. 

2 Screen support sliding arms handed left and right

3 These are the brackets handed left and right ( they are faintly stamped L and R on the inside of the curve) that screw to the top of the screen frame and then bolt onto the hinge plates fixed to the cab roof

 

SDC18797.JPG.3b801f2bb0c6591ed9834fae2af7f2c1.JPG

 

Next photo this is all the smaller parts numbers in black:

1 These bars have a number of threaded holes 3/16" UNF and they fit inside the the hollow screen frame that is drilled to match they are handed left and right.  The purpose is to hold the top and bottom frames together and also to act as fixings for the sliding arms (2 in the above photo) I have made sure they are perfectly clean and have greased them lightly with high melting point copper grease to help with reassembly.

Locking thumb wheels for the sliding arms interestingly smaller and of a different design than those found on Ford and Chevrolet CMP's.

windscreen locking assembly this fits over the threaded stud in the lower center pillar that you can see in the photos above the tang engages with a slot in the top of the dash board and locks the screen shut and draws the frame outer weather seal up against the cab frame simple cleaver idea but I'll reserve judgement until I see how effective it is. 

A total of 19 3/16" UNF x 3/8"counter sunk screws that hold all the gubbins together 

This is a real stroke of luck to have these two little do dabs, they are listed in the parts book as ' Clip frame joint part no 797773 x 2'  these clip over and cover the join in the top and bottom frames it's the sort of detail that either gets thrown away or rots away and not something that would be easy to fabricate even if you knew what they looked like.

SDC18798.JPG.7d865e0664eaa580b414846b32b0bc4b.JPG

 

So all a bit long winded for what started out as a quick job I'm afraid.

I have two good windscreen glasses put by ready for fitting.   I'll try several trial runs to make sure the glass fits the frame channel with the sealing strip in place before I go ahead and put the whole thing together hopefully this will not be too much of a drama and end in tears........watch this space. 

Pete

 

 

Edited by Pete Ashby
missing letter
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Posted (edited)

The sealing strip arrived yesterday from COH Bains a UK based company it's worth having a nose around the web site as they do vast amounts of rubber and sponge moldings and extrusions . 

So after all the prep work this was the time to take a deep breath and get on with the job.  Glass is a funny thing in a previous existence I had a bit to do with it and it can be immensely strong in compression but can shatter in an instant if torsional stress or shock is applied so careful does it is the watch word .

Bit of explanation on the way I found works for me,  if any one else finds it useful then all to the good there are other ways to do this.

First off the the rubber sealing strip is fed round edge of each screen starting at the center top of each pane.  The first 1/2" or so I super glue to the top edge of the glass, (don't apply the glue direct put of spot on a tin lid and apply with a match stick this prevents the risk of having glue getting where you don't want it and ending up sticking yourself to the job like Brare Rabbit and the Tar baby) now feed the strip round the edge it follows the radius edges well but the 90' corners at the center post need the side wall of the strip nicking at 45' on each side of the glass don't worry about the over lap yet just keep a light tension on the strip all the way round until the top center is reached again,  just run a fraction past the the center line then cut off square check for butt joint and then super glue 1/2" to the top of the glass and glue the two ends together as a butt joint together at the same time

It now looks like this

SDC18801.JPG.817b11acea81f9deb519e3d8f266184c.JPG

Trim up the corners and I put just a smidge of glue on the cut edges to make a firm 45' butt joint and prevents it ridging up when being eased into the frame.

That's what's going on here over lap about to be trimmed off (other super glues are available) repeat for the second screen

SDC18802.JPG.372ec147b3eae8b4315ac861401cc8c5.JPG

Now this where it can all go horribly wrong as both screens have to be fed into the bottom frame before the top frame is fitted. Unlike flat screen types closed cab  Dodge and  GMC frames can't be held in a workmate because each screen is angled away from the center post so phone a friend.   The glass must slide into the frame with only minimal pressure being applied if it's binding a little tyre lube brushed into the frame channel may help, don't use washing up liquid some have salt in them and it and will start to rot the frame.

Remember to slide the locking bars into the bottom frame and put a screw in each side to hold it in place as the top frame is lowered onto them.   I found the top frame could be seated using a small block of hard wood and a soft blow hammer very carefully along the top edge of the frame keeping everything square and in line however the locking bars tend to bind even after polishing and greasing so a ratchet strap fitted across the frame joint and very slight tension applied  overcomes the lateral spring in the frame and sealing rubber (any more than a gnats whisper and the glass will crack and the screen will just fold up)  another couple of light taps and everything closed and lined up.

SDC18803.JPG.0ef978c3ad92446a547667758f59ec40.JPG

The fixing screws all had a wipe of copper grease before fitting and then it was the turn of the screen fittings and that was that  and it looked like this below.

Outside with the central pillar molding and frame clips in place 

SDC18805.JPG.42e2b849c0fc5ab31eca8f4afdb12201.JPG

 

Inside with window sliders, hinge brackets and screen locking tab fitted.

SDC18806.JPG.4be5cc31b03532de4f7e37222dde0c34.JPG.

Some people choose not to mess about with sealing strip and mastic the glass into the frame it's quick, easy and virtually no risk of breakage however if the glass needs to be replaced for any reason it can be the devils own job getting the remains out of the frame channel and can result in the frame ending up as scrap. Close cab screens are very hard and very expensive to find nowadays but auto glass can be cut to size by any competent supplier and is relatively cheap so like a lot of things in life you pays your money and makes your choice.

Forgot to add that the covering on the bench is a piece of industrial carpet it's a bit rough so grips the glass slightly and stops everything sliding around too much but soft enough not to scratch the glass or the paint.

Pete

 

 

 

Edited by Pete Ashby
added a bit at the end
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Hello Peter,With regards to the PTO activation lever, I am restoring a dodge d60, which is fitted with tipping gear, when I got the restoration it had already been taken to pieces. The truck has the same lever as yours but i cant for the life of me see cant see where it connects to on the pump on the gear box. There is another lever on the top of the pump that you turn, would the push pull lever under the dash just have been fitted as a matter of course, or should it be connected some where. Many Thanks Howard.

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Posted (edited)

Good Morning Howard first question is I'm assuming if the truck has tipping gear fitted as a factory fit what I mean the truck is a D60S with 136" wheel base as these were the tipper variants the long wb trucks were all GS bodied.

I'm not sure how useful this will be but here are some photos from the water tank manual for the D15 showing the PTO I also have pictures for the pump but I guess a hydraulic pump would be different more like the type found on early Massey tractors with two penny valves not the piston that the water tank pump has?.  Either way the PTO should be the same I guess

SDC18808.JPG.ec2b3db10d7fccdc70ff3bbcafc1d841.JPG

SDC18809.JPG.f24691cb131aa71ae23331979514aa8f.JPG

SDC18810.JPG.b318502b662178437de5d2b7762ffaeb.JPG

And just for good measure the standard Canadian tyre pump that is interchangeable with the PTO the only reason I mention it is that you say you have a control leaver that turns on the top of the pump see No1 in diagram below

SDC18807.JPG.e25d1baa035bc4fafa5d34bf670fda7e.JPG

Lastly the photo of my set up before removal for comparison the only activating lever for the tanker set up is the pull handle on the dash board.

Control cables for PTO.JPG

Hope this helps

Pete

 

 

Edited by Pete Ashby
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Hello Peter, thanks for the reply and the information, the truck started its life as a decontamination unit, and i guess thats how the lever is there. The tipper was a post war mod done by a company in Norfolk, the pto on it now has a lever coming straight through the floor. This has certainly cleared up what the pull push lever was for. Ive attached a picture of the truck I have nearly finished restoring.

20200507_144426.jpg

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Pleased the info was of some use, that's a very smart job Howard,

Just how so many of the Dodge series spent the majority of their operational lives interesting change from having to agonize of the correct shade of G3 I imagine.

I've just sent you a PM about another matter by the way 

regards

Pete

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Posted (edited)

After completing the screen it was a logical step to start looking at the cab or perhaps there's some reverse logic in there somewhere.  Any ways it was time to shift things around in the workshop and get ready for some serious cutting, welding and grinding so the Leyland and Dodge got cover sheets over them.  The three sections that make up the cab of the Dodge were craned out ready to asses where to start.  The scuttle will need the most work so that's where I started.

Photos showing the areas marked in chalk that will require attention

SDC18826.JPG.43b158959bcfcfd17082e2b954ff0b16.JPG

SDC18827.JPG.5a37b45879aae186d20367e9a8292c11.JPG

SDC18825.JPG.8958dee102a7e3d2da0687b49a29a18d.JPG

Pete

Edited by Pete Ashby

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Posted (edited)

The first thing I noticed was that those cunning Dodge brothers obviously took a design decision somewhere around the late 1930's to start building truck cabs with built in obsolescence a cunning marketing ploy not adopted by British manufactures until British Leyland hit on the idea with some of their rust bucket designs of the 1960's. 

Due to the shape of the pressings involved in the design sheet metal on the Dodge is mostly 18 gauge stuff.  Panels are then spot welded together without any seam sealing thereby producing the perfect rust trap, any one who has restored any post 1960 cars will get the picture.  Just like a 60's motor the more I looked the more I was going to have to cut.

The plan is that weld repairs will be ground down but not completely finished,  when all the cab work is repaired it will all go to media blasting then welds will be dressed so the odd splodges of paint in the photos on the repair sections are just any rattle can laying around the shop to keep the flash rust at bay.

So first job replace a short section of toe plate and floor 

new section welded in with captive nut on the underside 

SDC18842.JPG.91a2b777aa8cd932406e521203afb594.JPG

 

finished in rather a fetching yellow

SDC18843.JPG.379b3aacede107e63a28a362b7f7ff26.JPG

 

Now lower panel this sits inside the wing when fitted you can see the difference in paint colour 

SDC18844.JPG.259e5f9935648c9a59513e63a27658f1.JPG

 

The bad stuff cut out now, notice the the pressed inner skin here

SDC18846.JPG.7cdffbaf6e4ddb99fcf03c8dbec5f264.JPG

New piece fitted 

SDC18860.JPG.ed7c7e410bb36526dc5ca587bf38f018.JPG

 

Now this is getting altogether a bit more scary this is where the top of the scuttle  meets the side panel

SDC18864.JPG.e647f1433c63ae12488aeaa9905ac20d.JPG

This is the replacement piece being worked up with the internal butt joint and a very slight contour on the sheet starting to be formed

SDC18865.JPG.f8eae87ec48ef4b252c3808171cb0584.JPG 

Tacked in place

SDC18866.JPG.d124b80a7d07029716e6c29f90fbb921.JPG

job done but  this may need some lead work after blasting cleaning 

SDC18869.JPG.ca6353d23c9642517430d971b034a256.JPG

Pete

Edited by Pete Ashby
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Lovely work there Pete. As they say "It's a bit like eating an Elephant, one small mouthful at a time". 😦

That windscreen surround & scuttle will be a test.

Watching with great interest

regards

Pete from OZ

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Trooper 3/9 RAAC said:

That windscreen surround & scuttle will be a test.

regards

Pete from OZ

Your not wrong there Pete, here's the start it's not going to be a quick fix fortunately the other side is in good condition so I can use it as a pattern and take my measurements from there.

So this is what I started with

s1.jpg.2b343db55479c192d3efac2f6727fd72.jpg

This is the mates side and what it's supposed to look like  

SDC18884.JPG.a1cdc459d9c266aed9515a2b84deeed2.JPG

next I cut a thin strip of card and folded and bent it to get and idea of  where the folds and bends occurred then using the card strip as a guide I made a profile  template out of the same gauge steel I was going to use for the repair

SDC18883.JPG.f7aea52bf64049b6cc7eb9d6c2016d3d.JPG

Next was to make up a rudimentary bending jig using bit's and pieces out of the scrap box (I very rarely throw anything away which probably explains why I can't find anything) 

SDC18868.JPG.c79edfcc72137008996d4297f970a61e.JPG

Using the vice, bending bars, two steel rods of a suitable diameter, a hammer and several mugs of tea with biscuits I worked up the first piece it's well  oversize in width here to take account of all the bends and curves

SDC18867.JPG.4417244f4667b8adbe21e25710133a4c.JPG

Here everything has been trimmed to size and tack welded inSDC18882.JPG.3002d4368d9d256025b94ce8313c2c77.JPG

The next part will be the challenge I need to do this bit all over again but also produce the upwards curve as the pressing runs up to meet the door pillar............ I think something stronger than tea is called for while I think about how that can be done,........... there may be tears and almost certainty some bad language .

Pete

Edited by Pete Ashby
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Cracking bit of work there, especially the home made bending jig.  As you say never throw anything out, it might be useful later.

Not trying to pick holes, here, but a sensible question.  Did you attempt to treat the rust on the inside of this panel? And if so, how?

rust.jpg.d421758306f569bf3be64cdae345658a.jpg

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I really like the way we all tackle these type of jobs, seeing how others do things is such a good reference .

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13 hours ago, Zero-Five-Two said:

Cracking bit of work there, especially the home made bending jig.  As you say never throw anything out, it might be useful later.

Not trying to pick holes, here, but a sensible question.  Did you attempt to treat the rust on the inside of this panel? And if so, how?

 

Yes Rob the panel was treated with the following product RUSTBUSTER Fe-123 look the company up here Rust.co.uk

I have used this product for many years for this sort of application no connection with the company but I would recommend it it can be applied by brush, roller or diluted and sprayed.

Pete

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