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BenHawkins

Another Thornycroft

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On 2/17/2019 at 7:37 PM, BenHawkins said:

I like the idea of restoring this one as a commandeered lorry made into a mobile workshop. So when I saw this Austin lighting set I had to add it to the collection (I do like T head engines with separate cylinders).

IMG_5092s.thumb.jpg.6383d83c3b7150289f58818039a60e5f.jpg

It needs quite a lot of work as the water jackets are split, it has the wrong carb and has been converted to coil ignition. The dynamo is just as bad; seized, missing the rotor windings, commutator and brushes. Quite a lot of research to be done on this one too.

 

So it is a compound wound, 1200RPM 110Vdc 27A 3kW generator connected to what appears to be two cylinders from a 10HP 4 cylinder Austin built in 1914. Now I need to try to work out how the armature should be wound, I guess I should start by looking at the one in Duxford. Does anyone have any photos or information?

 

Hi Ben,

Have you seen this webpage?  http://www.austinmemories.com/styled-96/index.html

regards, Richard

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On 6/10/2019 at 7:35 PM, Richard Farrant said:

Hi Ben,

Have you seen this webpage?  http://www.austinmemories.com/styled-96/index.html

regards, Richard

Thanks Richard,

I had seen that and purchased a copy of the catalogue for the generators.

At Beaulieu I purchased an Austin pressure gauge to go with the generating set.

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And a photo of a nice pair of Thornycrofts belonging to J Cooke and Sons (actually I negotiated for this photo to come free with some lamps purchased for my Singer).

IMG_5655.thumb.JPG.78a3a6ad86e09ccaeecf1b3ccf644451.JPG

 

 

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During our holiday we spent a day in Winchester looking through the Thornycroft records (the glamorous assistant is very good to me).

I thought this table of valve settings might help a few people out so have included it here.

IMG_5332.thumb.JPG.5c6540fb57b225ce73007b60248af434.JPG

 

Here is a general arrangement drawing of the T4 engine I need for this project (just in case somebody has one under their bench and does not know what it is).

IMG_5291.thumb.JPG.234e596c6e7217f093139423324a3a22.JPG

 

And another drawing showing the magneto cabling arrangements. The switch was mounted in the centre of the dash, just below the oil flow indicator (has anyone got a photo showing the detail of these?). 

IMG_5356.thumb.JPG.1129f0eeb2018ef851fa0080ee3b26a0.JPG

There were also drawings of all the gaskets and various other minor parts but we did not find any drawings of the more major components (pistons, cylinders, crank, crankcase etc.)

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Another really useful document in the archive was the Thornycroft monthly circular (staff magazine).

Here is a better photo of one of the BT chassis for CP&Co

IMG_5481.thumb.JPG.a4a45e48f138f20efad2d63dd73cb3b2.JPG

 

And in the background a CP&Co on it's way to war service.

IMG_5516.thumb.JPG.bcc18b498f74bcd4eccffa285461fe8e.JPG

The magazine is full of information and gives details that explain one of the holes in the chassis is for the odometer and drive (which is then obvious in the first photo).

IMG_5487s.thumb.jpg.63cf61c88bf0edbd2a577c1fc8fb2476.jpg

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There was a lubrication diagram.

IMG_5495.thumb.JPG.c93ccf0360391f99f7efec7a8d623349.JPG

 

The monthly circular also confirms there was an instruction book and a copy sent to all agents and with every chassis so I should continue to look out for one. Further references confirmed that the T4 engine was also used in large numbers for marine and generator applications.

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On 9/22/2019 at 8:13 PM, BenHawkins said:
On 9/22/2019 at 8:13 PM, BenHawkins said:

 

I thought this table of valve settings might help a few people out so have included it here.

IMG_5332.thumb.JPG.5c6540fb57b225ce73007b60248af434.JPG

 

Thanks for this Ben, a very useful document. I note there are two different versions of M4 settings, one having a 2" larger flywheel. My initial thoughts are that the latter settings are for the M4 engines fitted to the early Q types. I wonder if the given figures were merely altered to suit the larger flywheel, or was an attempt being made to extract more power from the old engine ?  The fact that different degree settings are listed might indicate the latter ?

 

 

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On 9/22/2019 at 12:27 PM, BenHawkins said:

Another really useful document in the archive was the Thornycroft monthly circular (staff magazine).

Here is a better photo of one of the BT chassis for CP&Co

IMG_5481.thumb.JPG.a4a45e48f138f20efad2d63dd73cb3b2.JPG

 

And in the background a CP&Co on it's way to war service.

IMG_5516.thumb.JPG.bcc18b498f74bcd4eccffa285461fe8e.JPG

The magazine is full of information and gives details that explain one of the holes in the chassis is for the odometer and drive (which is then obvious in the first photo).

IMG_5487s.thumb.jpg.63cf61c88bf0edbd2a577c1fc8fb2476.jpg

Does anyone know if the Thornycroft monthly circular (staff magazine) archives are available online?

Bosun Al

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On 9/26/2019 at 10:28 PM, BosunAl said:

Does anyone know if the Thornycroft monthly circular (staff magazine) archives are available online?

Bosun Al

I don't believe they are. I didn't even know they existed until we found some on the shelf in the archive.

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Although I have not done particularly well at finding parts for this project I have just managed to find one of the instruction manuals for "T" Type as described in the Thornycroft Monthly Circular.

IMG_5657.thumb.JPG.8df4a08f8acfbf3b8d5085d7151ab150.JPG

Page 1 would have given the revision date. It is unfortunately missing but is probably one of the least useful pages in the book.

Page 3 gives the chassis dimensions and maximum permitted body dimensions.

IMG_5658.thumb.JPG.c64afb8250ec761f6edfd67797bbbe94.JPG

Examples of the three lighter weight chassis are given on page 4&5

IMG_5660.thumb.JPG.af989c6df413f97392f3cd08de8f0b1f.JPG

 

And one of CP&Co BT vans is shown on page 6. It always seems to be the same picture of van 250 that appears in the adverts.

IMG_5661.thumb.JPG.5d788d482635580dc47a6edf9bbed4e8.JPG

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Now you can just switch headlights on it is easy to overlook how important lighting up tables must have been.

IMG_5662.thumb.JPG.dd798214c39aa38a62959ee92d914f41.JPG

Owners are advised to arrange for a vehicle to have regular periods in the shed.

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Some more driving instructionsIMG_5665.thumb.JPG.17689be08d28b32b0b6f2a189c0332de.JPG

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Some good pictures of the T4 engine; perhaps somebody has one in their shed.

IMG_5666.thumb.JPG.46fb2dd77215037c5268d12d5b773326.JPG

 

Further information on the engine and some good views of the crankcase.

IMG_5667.thumb.JPG.e17e9f14a38033ff2e009c24e7125bb6.JPG

 

A little information on fault finding

IMG_5668.thumb.JPG.5e42780582b9d757e42d243c3c5093e1.JPG

 

A good view of the steering column detail, fuel tank and oil indicator.

IMG_5669.thumb.JPG.b66eba386ef6100e86273f45c5bc812a.JPG

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Flywheel, clutch and universal joints.

IMG_5670.thumb.JPG.088ac96438171c6dfa896c2f759e97d9.JPG

Gearbox, steering gear and brakes.

IMG_5671.thumb.JPG.8ff0a31a444f9851414868f14f28e122.JPG

 

Care of the back axle

IMG_5672.thumb.JPG.18b990a5e533d48629cdcfb969fd086b.JPG

 

Side view of chassis

IMG_5673.thumb.JPG.bb4941e1fbe8d4dc9d4c2ce669e6130d.JPG

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And for me, this is where is gets most interesting. Parts diagram showing the cylinder block with fixed head and inlet over exhaust valve arrangement.IMG_5675.thumb.JPG.fdf0c08cd2724f96a694308332f5b246.JPG

 

Crankshaft, camshaft, oil pump etc.

IMG_5676.thumb.JPG.e5e6f8c2671e6ada9c91dfb8de0b506d.JPG

Oil pipes, magneto couplings etc.

IMG_5677.thumb.JPG.c118bf2e9a1a45cf4f26d6ce6e5a9dab.JPG

 

Flywheel, clutch etc. This does not show the fan blades on the flywheel (visible on earlier photo).

IMG_5678.thumb.JPG.b10e9cec6c04d0d261ed1636a491d73b.JPG

 

 

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Gearbox. The N/S and O/S gearbox mountings look identical in the photo but have different part numbers.

IMG_5679.thumb.JPG.9e22fb921eeb588ae39dd70b3a2a5f26.JPG

 

And quite a few parts to go inside the gearbox.

IMG_5680.thumb.JPG.cdc1bc9f9eb9b5422a3f18fe13eadc17.JPG

 

Footbrake components

IMG_5681.thumb.JPG.c40407e687efd2c4bfe3a2e59281b176.JPG

 

And some of the parts on the outside of the gearbox

IMG_5682.thumb.JPG.7e977eaf4b904dfebd60cc3b00d4d5f9.JPG

 

 

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Front Axle. At least I have most of these parts. I think this shape of axle cap (Part number 55312) is only seen on the T4 Thornycroft.

IMG_5691.thumb.JPG.d4acb547469dd8267eed51658dea7cd9.JPG

The back axle built up in three layers is another feature that seems unique to the T4.

IMG_5683.thumb.JPG.384a98caf18f5dd5cfba1dbace53e71b.JPG

 

A sliding block rear universal joint is used. I am missing this but as it is similar to the one I made on the 1914 Dennis at least I have had some practice. 

IMG_5684.thumb.JPG.7a34c966b76b52c9774db326510a3488.JPG

 

Brake drums and blocks. 

IMG_5685.thumb.JPG.65e08a77556789969afd79b54bef244f.JPG

 

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Steering column detail showing worm and nut steering box.

IMG_5686.thumb.JPG.0af9e261a431fd5df41cab00fb366bd6.JPG

 

A selection of parts. Many of these I have, but it is good to have detail of the front cross member. 

IMG_5687.thumb.JPG.c8b10bfc67674dd3f01a87084c0ceaf8.JPG

Bonnet rest etc.

IMG_5688.thumb.JPG.0f7aedf2b87dd4b88e16a7e804a20e31.JPG

 

And finally the radiator, this appears to show that I have the correct radiator.

IMG_5689.thumb.JPG.4f0ad3a20caa2c924bba6ac7ff047819.JPG

 

Although pretty good this parts book still appears to miss quite a few parts such as the exhaust silencer.

Period literature described the T4 as a "J type in miniature"; although this might be true for the chassis construction there are many differences in the rest of the vehicle.

At least we have a better idea of what all the missing parts should look like and therefore stand a chance of identifying them.

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On 2/18/2019 at 6:37 AM, BenHawkins said:

Wow, it has been a year since the chassis arrived and I have only really managed to do research!

I like the idea of restoring this one as a commandeered lorry made into a mobile workshop. So when I saw this Austin lighting set I had to add it to the collection (I do like T head engines with separate cylinders).

IMG_5092s.thumb.jpg.6383d83c3b7150289f58818039a60e5f.jpg

It needs quite a lot of work as the water jackets are split, it has the wrong carb and has been converted to coil ignition. The dynamo is just as bad; seized, missing the rotor windings, commutator and brushes. Quite a lot of research to be done on this one too.

IMG_5095s.thumb.jpg.367d57e693a90392ca71339a100803b8.jpg

So it is a compound wound, 1200RPM 110Vdc 27A 3kW generator connected to what appears to be two cylinders from a 10HP 4 cylinder Austin built in 1914. Now I need to try to work out how the armature should be wound, I guess I should start by looking at the one in Duxford. Does anyone have any photos or information?

 

I have one of the Austin engines.  It is No. 136 with a hand etched ID plate.  It has a cast steel engine base so probably was not a generating set.  I found it in Mallacoota Victoria in 1976 and only managed to acquire it last year.  It is complete but I haven't got it rinning as yet.  Not sure what the radiator should be like either..  The generator is just sitting there to fill up space.

IMG20190923135512 (2).jpg

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