LarryH57 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Bryan, as mentioned above I wonder if the exact RAF vehicle types can be established from the registrations I have in my archives: Albion Ambulance; PMP 654 Albion 30 cwt; EXB 197 Ford Van; PMT 659 (used by Clerks & carried Stationery) Hillman Tender; JMV 936 Vauxhall Staff Car; PMT 805 Amazingly they also had the ex-RAF Northolt Fordson Fire Tender; RMX 969, a picture of which is attached on another thread on here! Edited January 19, 2018 by LarryH57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Here is the Dodge crew bus data sheet for comparison - it's very close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 here's the alternate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 The description Hillman Tender is a headscratcher, Tender was over a certain weight below that the RAF used the term VAN- Hillman supplied vans ( in the commercial meaning of the word) and Tillies neither are big enough to be your mystery vehicle, there were some large Dennis uniform Vans and some Commer Vans - some of which were converted to recruiting vans, Everything else on your list is a "standard" RAF type and does not fit the picture . TED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 Ted, I think it was just down to the RAF clerk who typed up the orders, so I guess it was a Hillman Tilley . Incidentally I have noted that the SDF had an impressed Albion so I wonder if that is the one I'm trying to identify. The engine compartment looks similar to those on the Albion Refueller & Ambulance which had a hood shape that was horizontal from the side rather than sloping down towards he front. Albions like this also had fairly simple and small mudguards at the front, compared say to a Fordson Sussex, which seem to be the case with this 'horsebox'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Can you share the odd Albion shot please TED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz48 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 This is an old Albion but sadly no-more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Ted I think you mistook my post - my description of the vehicle in my post above was the one I posted, that despite looking like a horsebox has similar looks to the front end of an RAF Albion Refueller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Larry, firstly your Hillman JMV 936. I have a list of MT on charge to 59 sqn when they made their 20 may 1940 escape to the french coast amongst them was Hillman Van ( Tilly) JMV 732. Turning to our mystery vehicle , I have just remembered pre WW2 the RAF had a wireless tender on the Albion chassis, I will search for a pic regards TED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 Thanks Ted; I hope you find the photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) A week or so ago I posted on another thread photographs of an RAF Mobile Field Photographic Unit In Egypt and Libya in 1942. In A Fordson Sussex 6x4 was seen towing a Mobile Darkroom. In another photograph in the series, a Fordson WOT1 6x4 is seen towing a second Mobile Darkroom. I have just obtained another photograph in the series, and on enlarging a small part I have found this lorry towing one of the Mobile Darkrooms. I think it is a Dennis AM 30/40 cwt 4x2, but the late Bart Vanderveen in his green bible says the lorry was used by the RAF in the UK only. Any thoughts please? John. Edited January 28, 2018 by john_g_kearney Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I would aggree with Dennis also piped for vacuum trailer brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 According to the RAF Data book Yes the Dennis was piped for trailer Vac brake operations. They appear in several overseas pics, my late friend Bart was normally spot on but I think he had picked up on some misleading info. The Dennis also had a 2 speed aux gearbox which leads me to the conclusion it was designed with trailer towing in mind. Its in- service companion the Albion- only had vac brake connection fitted to the units built as tractors for semi( artic) trailers and were not fitted with an aux gearbox. returning to the origins of the thread I cannot find my pics of the Albion wireless tender but here is a shot from Les Freathy's book - I have cropped the aerial array and stowage box shown in Les's pics , to show it as it MAY have been used in a slightly different comms unit role. John G thanks for sharing these photo unit pics. You may be aware these shots appear to be of "the Photo Section " of HQ 285 wing in N Africa. No 3 MFPS reached N Africa and they took over the task of the 285 photo section but don't seem to has become operational unto landing on Italian soil ?? regards TED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Many thanks for the ID, Ted and John. Thank you too, Ted, for the info re HQ 285 Wing - most interesting. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Now this is really getting interesting... This morning I posted a photograph of a Photographic Section 4x2 hauling a Mobile Darkroom - location was the mountainous terrain of the Wadi El Kouf in Libya. The Photographic Section (or perhaps it was just a detachment therefrom) had two darkrooms, and both had been hauled across the desert from Egypt and into eastern Libya by Fordson 6x4s. When I looked at the photograph I posted this morning, I supposed that one of the 6x4s had broken down and that the 4x2 had had to be substituted. But looking at a second photograph taken at the same time in the same place, I see that both darkrooms are now being hauled by 4x2s. There must have been a definite decision to take the 6x4s off and hook on the 4x2s. I haven't made an ID of this second lorry yet. Note that in both photographs, a man is walking beside the darkroom - possibly he is there to work the handbrake as required? John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 If the head light is part of the mudguard as it looks to be, then GS Chevrolet with all steel body is a candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I would say the last photo is a Dodge towing the trailer. The RAF had a lot of them in that theatre. I guess the WOT1 Fordsons were OK towing on the flat but with rod and cable brakes they were not up to towing trailers on terrain like that. I am assuming the WOT1 was not equipped with a vacuum brake system for trailers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) Many thanks, John and Richard. Would a Dodge or Chevrolet have hydraulic brakes? I was wondering about turning circles too. Presumably the 6x4s would have larger turning circles than the 4x2s, which might have been an issue in the mountainous terrain if bends were tight - you would not want to shunt back and forth round a corner if you were towing a four-wheel trailer... Incidentally, the Dodge / Chevrolet has R.A.F. on the cab door in white, not black like the other vehicles in the photographs. Edited January 29, 2018 by john_g_kearney Additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) Both the Dodge and Chev in RAF service had Hyd brakes , the Chev was servo assist. re the white RAF its because the vehicle is finished in a dark colour- The 6x4s seemed to cope with the difficult corners OK TED Edited January 29, 2018 by ted angus insert picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Thanks for the brake info, Ted. Interesting photograph you have posted - especially to see the generator in the loadbed rather than being towed. The photographs of the Photographic Section in Egypt / Libya showed generators in lorry loadbeds, but I thought this was because the lorries already had a towed load in the form of the mobile darkrooms. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I was also thinking about the 6x4 with trailer combination getting around the tight bends. Was that why the gen set was on the loadbed I wonder. What fantastic pictures and information is coming out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 Ted, what country was your photo above taken in? It looks a bit like Tunisia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFMT Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 1/28/2018 at 6:03 PM, Richard Farrant said: I would say the last photo is a Dodge towing the trailer. The RAF had a lot of them in that theatre. I guess the WOT1 Fordsons were OK towing on the flat but with rod and cable brakes they were not up to towing trailers on terrain like that. I am assuming the WOT1 was not equipped with a vacuum brake system for trailers. Richard - the WOT1 had vacuum brakes "on certain chassis only" according to the databook Lauren references above. The Austin K3YF 6x4 had vacuum trailer brakes as standard. On 1/29/2018 at 10:06 AM, john_g_kearney said: Many thanks, John and Richard. Would a Dodge or Chevrolet have hydraulic brakes? I was wondering about turning circles too. Presumably the 6x4s would have larger turning circles than the 4x2s, which might have been an issue in the mountainous terrain if bends were tight - you would not want to shunt back and forth round a corner if you were towing a four-wheel trailer... Incidentally, the Dodge / Chevrolet has R.A.F. on the cab door in white, not black like the other vehicles in the photographs. For reference the Dodge VK62B 4x2 had a turning circle of 68ft. The Cheverolet 1543 4x2 was 60ft The Austin K3YF 6x4 was 57ft. The Fordson WOT1 6x4 had a turning circle of 64 ft to the right and 62 ft to the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Many thanks for the turning circle information in particular. It is interesting to see that the Dodge four-wheeler had such a large turning circle - presumably related to its long 188 inch wheelbase. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 17 hours ago, LarryH57 said: Ted, what country was your photo above taken in? It looks a bit like Tunisia. Greece 1941 211 sqn, carrying those single axle generators seems to be common practise for some reason, incompatible towing eyes weak towing eyes ??? don't really know TED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.