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ploughman

Landrover Series 111 new purchase.

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Been a bit rash and splashed out on buying a Series 3 SWB today.

Couple of questions.

If Listed as being a 1978 vehicle will it be near the limit for road tax?

What would you recommend as being the priority things to check up on and what to do about them?

What is the address to get its history?   Read it often enough but not noted where to send off to.

Is there a date at which Matt green took over from DBG?

Best sources of parts? Not needed yet but you never know.

Thanks in advance. Will post photos and details when I collect it.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ploughman said:

If Listed as being a 1978 vehicle will it be near the limit for road tax?

What would you recommend as being the priority things to check up on and what to do about them?

What is the address to get its history?   Read it often enough but not noted where to send off to.

Is there a date at which Matt green took over from DBG?

Best sources of parts? Not needed yet but you never know.

Thanks in advance. Will post photos and details when I collect it.

 

 

 

Yes, you'll be free of road tax next year, provided you register it as an historic vehicle. Have a look on the DVLA site follow from www.gov.uk for what you need to do.

Priority - bulkhead/footwells and rear cross member rust badly and, if a Lightweight, vent panel.  But watch for corrosion wherever steel meets aluminium.  Remember, it is a 40 year-old vehicle - older than WWII vehicles were when they were being restored in the 70s - so things will be worn, but, just about everything can be replaced.

www.rlcarchive.org

yes, second half of 70s - certainly 1979 was matt green - best way to check which yours was is to look somewhere it won't have been repainted by the military or by a PO - inside the dashboard, for example.

For parts - get yourself a copy of the illustrated parts catalogue so you can trace part numbers.  Then put those numbers into search boxes on dealers websites and you'll start to get an idea of where to go.  Try Craddocks, P A Blanchard, LR Series, Paddock Spares, Totalparts and you'll find a host of others.

 

And enjoy!

10 68

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Thanks for the replies.

I picked my new  toy up today.

Ex Army reg 07-GN-04 just applied for details from RLC.

 

Landrover S3.jpg

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I recall there being a number of very plain Jane short and long wheel base Land Rovers for driver training in the early 1980s. They usually had civvy rear cross members, cant recall about the dash set up.

They had yellow rear and white front licence plates but with the military VRN.

Most did nothing but driver training Monday to Friday. Some ended up in the duty vehicle fleet or being used by the cookhouse or various training wings if needed. They were very straight and very clean vehicles, washed within an inch of their life. All the galvanised capping and parts were not painted over.

 The driver training ones had an L plate front and rear, I am not sure how the rear was applied but the front was I think mounted on a stiff piece of material and bolted through the grille without the need for holes. something tell me the rear one was on a similar backing but was attached to a thin metal bracket that clipped over the rear of the body tub and hung down below the canvas, that is my recollection. Well, I just re-watched the video below right through and there is some good info for you at the 9.30 mark and onward.

There were no other markings on the vehicle at all and the paint was a slighty shiny green. There is a good example at the early part of this video which would have been a duty vehicle.

 

 

Edited by robin craig
added info

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Thanks for that Robin.

I was thinking it appears to be slightly different to the usual LRs around.

I had been thinking of Driver training as well, but my background was with the RE's so our training place was Church Crookham.

I spent about a fortnight in classrooms, even though I already had a license, then out on the road in these Rovers. seem to recall having more road based tyre treads than the usual All Terrain.

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11 minutes ago, ploughman said:

 

I spent about a fortnight in classrooms, even though I already had a license, then out on the road in these Rovers. seem to recall having more road based tyre treads than the usual All Terrain.

Hi Bryan,

I seem to remember that these particular Landies had road tread tyres and they could have been 6.50-16 and always looked a bit skinny. Looks like your Land Rover is on 7.50-16 and looks much more business like. For its age it looks like you have found a good one.

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We shall have to see what develops.

When the RLC Records turn up it may answer the query.

 

Robin mentioned this earlier - "I recall there being a number of very plain Jane short and long wheel base Land Rovers for driver training in the early 1980s. They usually had civvy rear cross members,"

What would be different about the Cross Members?

I know nothing so what should I look for?

 

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It looks an excellent example.

It is a Truck, Utility, CL ½ tonne 4x4 Rover  Series 3.  07GN04 should be one of a batch of some 300 delivered in the accounting year 1976 – 1977.  CL, or Commercial, Land Rovers were, basically, civilian pattern vehicles with some minor modifications or additions to make them compatible with other military vehicles.  All would have, for example, a military fire extinguisher.  Most, though not all, had a military tow hook and NATO trailer socket fitted to the rear.  Generally, they were fitted with civilian pattern lights.  Most had the “deluxe” bonnet with the rounded edges.  Some had large recovery loops fitted to the top of the front dumb irons above the bumper. Some were fitted with a bonnet locking hasp and staple – a civilian optional extra and most had civilian pattern canvas tilts (though, of course, these were easily changed in service if damaged for the nearest equivalent in the stores).

Early examples were issued in standard Land Rover green with galvanised parts left unpainted while later ones were in satin “NATO” green, with, again, the galvanised parts left unpainted.  Markings would have been minimal – RHD ones would have the district marking, then an oblique stroke and a number - something like “SEDIST/23” in white on the front wing and the rear above the lights. They didn’t have bridge circles.

Most were used for driver training and domestic duties, such as security patrols, carrying the dog handlers, providing the duty vehicle etc. although some, particularly those on the strength of Territorial Army units often found themselves being camouflaged black and green and used in more military roles, albeit for home defence, or, occasionally, for reinforcement of BAOR.

The other identifying features were, firstly, the civilian pattern fuel filler cap just behind the driver’s door.  Military-specification Series 3s didn’t have this – they had two fuel tanks with their fillers under the seats, so not visible externally.  Secondly, the rear cross member which was of civilian pattern.  It was divided, approximately into thirds: the centre part was parallel top and bottom with a large hole in it to take the PTO.  The two outside sections had their bottom edges tapered upwards towards the vehicle sides with a small “grab handle-style” bumper on each side.  A military cross member was parallel across the whole rear of the vehicle with no large PTO hole and a pair of substantial rectangular bumperettes in place of the grab handles.

But, bear in mind, there were a lot of them and that meant a lot of variations – so the comments above are only a generalisation – they do not hold good for every vehicle!

And, yes, 3TRRE had a number of them in 56 Sqn at Church Crookham where they replaced similar Series 2A CLs

10 68

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Thanks or the added comments.

 

I think a number of your points can be seen in the attached photos.

The filler cap is on the RH side and not under the seats.

20180115_140644.jpg

Landrover common 1.jpg

Landrover Home.jpg

 

20180115_140644.jpg

Edited by ploughman

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5a8c7d62c9381_LandroverS3.thumb.jpg.5e1e5a4dc4a668234c1e86411c5fdca7.jpgThought I would post another photo of my recent acquisition.

oops posted this the other week, still what the hell have it again.

 

Mil Reg 07GN04

Downloaded the details from RLC yesterday

Ashchurch date is 26-10-77

Then to ADPCON 1-11-77 , What is ADPCON?

Then a TA vehicle first in Scotland with 32 Sig Regt (v). Based in Glasgow.

From 9 - 3 - 78 to 1-4-80 then on the 22nd April 80 to 38 Sig Regt (v) in Sheffield

Released to MVS 23/7/98

07GN04 History.pdf

Is it possible from the B Card to identify the actual unit or Squadron the vehicle was attached to?

Are the red inked notes anything to take heed of?

 

So previous thoughts about it being a Training vehicle have been ditched.

I note that a similar age S3 is being discussed currently under B Cards, the photos on there look almost the same as mine but I have an Ammeter but no big button, Fuel cap hasp and bonnet hasp.

 

 

Edited by ploughman

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You , have seen the other thread started yesterday for the later manuf.  88"  CL.

Your truck is only 7 vehicles distant from my  07GN11 ,  same contract - would have been on Solihull build line together.

Missed the start of your thread a few weeks back , need time later to peruse, may be able to add info. / comment.

I forget exactly ISTR   ADPCON indicated that the vehicle had been added to a early computer database that for a while ran with the 'B' card system.

 

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1 hour ago, ploughman said:

 

Then a TA vehicle first in Scotland with 32 Sig Regt (v). Based in Glasgow.

From 9 - 3 - 78 to 1-4-80 then on the 22nd April 80 to 38 Sig Regt (v) in Sheffield

Is it possible from the B Card to identify the actual unit or Squadron the vehicle was attached to?

Are the red inked notes anything to take heed of?

 

Your B Card tells you that it was in HQ Sqn of 32 Sig Regt, but, doesn't elaborate for 38 Sig Regt. You can look up both units on line as they still exist today and still in their original locations.  The red ink is used when a vehicle is cast - hence the last entry when it went to MVS.  The annotations in red on the other lines are simply highlighting of particular aspects of the transaction accounting - they are all the same on all B Cards, so, no, no particular significance. The UIN of A3402A is in pencil as this changed as the vehicle moved between units and is correct for 38 Sig Regt.  The suffix is an A for a major unit ie battalion-sized.  Sometimes, there can be other suffixes, B and C, for example where sub units (company-sized) have taken something on charge directly and independently of the major unit.  But, not in this case, so you can't tell from the B Card which sub unit held it.  The chances are it moved between sub units anyway.  But, it was well looked after wherever it was!

 

10 68

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AUTOMATED DATA PROCESSING CONVERSION  l have seen as automatic/auto but this is how  l have always known it or to put it simply put on to a computer

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16 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

AUTOMATED DATA PROCESSING CONVERSION  l have seen as automatic/auto but this is how  l have always known it or to put it simply put on to a computer

Yes - that is it,  run by Merlin Management & you could obtain a print off headed Merlin Management  (I don't think there was a mention of ADPCON) along with the 'B' Card -  that was when the Ex-Military Land Rover Association had a monthly 'bulk-run' done prior to people following the FOI route.  Merlin Management was probably a privatization scheme.

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Regarding  -  usage  Royal Signls (V)   TA Units.

I was in 34 N Sig. Reg. (V)  between 1969 and 1971 , based mainly around  Gateshead/Middlesbrough/Darlington/Leeds.  At this time all the vehicles Austin K9,Bedfords, Land Rovers were pained  DBG , the only painted vehicle in OD was defo. a Bedford at Leeds (it was owned by the SAS and IIRC they had two 109" in OD).   From abt. 1970 - all the TA Regiments were permitted a insignia decal on the doors -  24N was a blue/white lightning bolt flash approx. 12" long , two triangles one white one blue (decided from a regimental competition).

The vehicles then were all S2A , quite new , always hosed down under & top soap washed before garaging.  My trade was a ED - so I as a rule always drove a 109" , but was training for HGV starting on a K9 Signals truck .By 1972 - I was a Junior Engineer in the MN.    This was still S2A days - so the 88" were Rover 8  or  10  (I can't recall any 6).  I don't recall any 88"  FFR  - they were all 109".  There were 88"  Line Layers.   My first leave , I called in at the TA Depot and there observed a S2A / Rover 1 Lightweight , I think it must have been the private taxi of a full-time staff sgt.  -  so it may have been a Catterick pool vehicle  -  probably confirmed by the fact that it was defo. pained in OD,  that was the first time I drove a Lightweight & had it in mind to have my very own a.s.a.p.  (that I did soon after).

I presume the 88"  S3   CL's did the same jobs as the S2A 8 or 10's.

Now  -  I remember this quite clearly ,  there were very few.   1 based at Gateshead, this transported the WRAC Major from Gateshead to Darlington , then most training weekends to Leeds or Scarborough , always the driver was a corporal.  Officers never ever drove.   Well they did on a evening trip to pubs, a 2nd Lt.  was sacked when he rolled a 88" near Whitby.   

Two 88"  were based at Darlington , one seemed the private truck of a Officer Cadet but he had been in the ranks as a radio op. , the other was used by a full-time staff sgt.  /  taxi to fish & chip shop in town, weekends - used by the two radio technicians.    Middlesbrough had two 88" and I presume they were used similar.  On training weekends - normally a  RMP (TA)  88"  joined the fun - that was based at Stockton Depot. IIRC - all the non-FFR equipped had a PYE   blue coloured - Westminster model I think.

Edited by ruxy

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 IIRC - all the non-FFR equipped had a PYE   blue coloured - Westminster model I think.

 

What's a PYE Blue colored?

We used to use PYE radios on the airfields with the RE's but doubt it's them.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

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Yes -  almost certain it was the PYE  Westminster model that was used.

-------------

When  I  purchased   07GN11  in 1984 ,  I consulted with a Mr Isdale @ Technical , Solihull.  In those days they were quite easy-going with LR nutters. Providing the info was not commercially sensitive.  He ran through all the differences to a cvvy 'Basic'  along with the following that I made a note of  :-

Contract  WV8765/R2993

was for  300  qty. vehicles  ,   06GN53  to  09GN53

AVC  1621-0778    -   Meaning   a  standard 88"  CL

----------

I did have a  HH   88" CL   manuf. abt.  1980/81  ,  this would be the first contract with all the major changes  (the  Tri-Service  KC  contract would be identical).

My first  88"   S3  CL  was manuf. abt. 1975  -  it was a low mileage minta & I only had to change a front wing.  This would be the first time I came across IRR paint , where it was flaked you could see pink and I considered this to be a primer that was not well bonded.  I suspected it had been sprayed on top of factory delivery wax.   So I took it to a local O.C.C.S.   and blasted the IRR clean off to original DBG .  Unfortunately I did not keep my log book of this LR ,  the spec. was identical to  07GN11 - so possibly it was a GN.

I do recall eyeballing  88"  SW (Station Wagen)  at Ruddington but they always went for stupid £ regarding condition , the Army seemed to keep them far longer than a Basic.  The S2A SW  - ISTR were on a military chassis ,  certain there were some S3 and more or less exact civvy spec. 

I don't recall any 88"  CL's with a razor bonnet , they may have been the odd few on small contracts - problem is I have never seen a list of CL Contracts.

Only seen a handfull of Royal Navy  CL's - most were 109"  , the RN seemed to do their own thing - diesel and could have been purchased direct from a franchise dealer.    I can hardly recall the very few RAF  88" CL's I observed - IIRC they were vans with back door.

I have a couple of pics. of 07GN11 on SlickPic now , trouble is the 'share' does not seem to be working for me just now.  Will work on it.

 

 

Edited by ruxy
spelin

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l had the use for a number of years of 27 FL II a series 3 station wagon a unmolested civvy spec land rover

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