Unit Marking identification help sought.

[M.Rimmer]

Please can anyone help with identifying which unit is represented by the markings in the attached pictures?. They are on a 1961 Rover Mk6. I'm fairly certain the blue shield with the white cross and black outline is the Lowland Brigade, and the other flash is obviously Royal Artillery, but which unit does 66 represent?.

Merry Christmas to all!.

Matt.

[fv1609]

I was going to suggest this:

But none of the links work I'm afraid since the improvements were made to the site.

[fv1609]

Looking in SDITF looks like 66 red over blue was CS Regt BAOR

[M.Rimmer]

Hi Clive,

Many thanks indeed. Apologies for sounding thick, but what does CS stand for?.

[fv1609]

Close Support, I think.

[10FM68]

It is indeed Close Support and the "66" on the Red/Blue RA ground also indicated a divisional Close Support Regiment and for a TA District at that time.  If the Arm of Service (AOS) sign is contemporary with the Scottish Saltire, then it probably belonged to the TA in Scotland, but I can't find in my books the timeline for 52 Scottish Brigade who used the Saltire, so I don't know what that formation might have been in the 1960s.  I'll keep looking!

Further looking comes up with at least six possibilities: 275 to 280 Fd Regts RA(TA).  Difficult to tell as there were major disbandments, amalgamations and reorganisations in the TA Gunners between 1954 and 1961 and the detail I have isn't clear which of the regiments belonged to 51 Highland Brigade of 52 Lowland - both were, it seems, by this time administrative districts for TA units in Scotland. And none is described as a close support regiment.  Still, it's a start, perhaps.

10 68

Edited December 24, 2017 by 10FM68

[M.Rimmer]

Thanks both. I think the AOS sign is contemporary to the Saltire judging by the paint layers, though there are traces of another sign being present, possibly later, which is a white number on a brown background.

Getting back to the Saltire, here's the cover of the TA magazine from March 1965. Unfortunately there is no key to the identification of the signs.

Edited December 24, 2017 by M.Rimmer
Spelling

[10FM68]

Yep, that would cover it - top right 51 Highland Brigade, below it 52 Lowland Brigade, then 53 Welsh Brigade.  I won't do them all, but the one you're interested in is there.  A brown AOS sign later than 1961 would be the junior, of three - the others having red and green squares - brigade HQ or one of its constituent infantry battalions the numbering should be 54 - 58, with 54 the bde HQ and the other three numbers its infantry battalions.

10 68

[REME 245]

Surely the Brigades only came into existance post 1967 when the old TA was disbanded.   Up until 67 on paper at least most of the 1st line Territorial Army Infantry Divisions created in 1908 still existed.   The magazine you picture spot lights the 42nd and 48th TA Divisions in that issue.  I have the one that cover's the 43rd Division.

 

 

[fv1609]

Indeed the Army Emergency Reserve Abolition Order 1967.

This was detailed in AO 2/1967 & has nearly 60 pages including details of old units & their successor units. Many of these seem quite obvious & logical others less so, for instance at the top of the list:

HQ 53 (Welsh) Division/District TA Increment was replaced by

104 Light Air Defence Regiment RA (Volunteers)

If anyone wants any translations of what became what or replaced by whom, I'll look it up.

[M.Rimmer]

23 minutes ago, fv1609 said:

Indeed the Army Emergency Reserve Abolition Order 1967.

This was detailed in AO 2/1967 & has nearly 60 pages including details of old units & their successor units. Many of these seem quite obvious & logical others less so, for instance at the top of the list:

HQ 53 (Welsh) Division/District TA Increment was replaced by

104 Light Air Defence Regiment RA (Volunteers)

If anyone wants any translations of what became what or replaced by whom, I'll look it up.

Hi Clive,

I would be interested in what it says about the 52nd Lowland Division and when it became the Lowland Brigade.  I found a wiki page which indicates the change occurred in 1960, but that may or course be incorrect.

Thanks,

Matt.

[fv1609]

I'm afraid I'm a bit lost on all the intricacies of unit names & titles. The nearest to what you ask is

HQ 52 (Lowland ) Divisional Regiment became HQ 154 (Lowland) Regiment (Volunteers) on 1/4/67

Then under a list of TAVR -  Category IIA Infantry is listed 52nd Lowland Volunteers

Incidentally Joris has activated the link I posted earlier. They are not in the correct sequence yet but I think you should find 66 in there somewhere.

[REME 245]

You are talking about a TA which was less than 10% of its previous strength after the 1967 cuts.   The successor Brigades administered the units within their geograghical areas but were in most cases not deployable as formations.

Don't get confused by the 'Lowland Brigade' name which was a post war Regular Army grouping of Infantry Regiments in geograhical areas for training and adminstration purposes.   This is different to what the Division became after 67.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowland_Brigade_(United_Kingdom)#Administrative_Brigade_1948–1968

 

[10FM68]

Sorting out time-lines for the contraction of the TA post-war is a real nightmare.  Have a look at this site and see the dates for changes among the RA TA units, for example: http://british-army-units1945on.co.uk/

There is the added confusion of the fact that, at around the same time, many regular infantry battalions were brigaded and made to replace their regimental cap badges with brigade ones - you may remember the outcry - the Argyles, for example, when they deployed in Aden in 67 gave up their brigade badge (the crucified moose)  and insisted on wearing their traditional Argyles cap badge - further adding to the dislike of their CO by the authorities, as it happened.  But these brigades were short-lived and most unpopular. 

It is really tricky trying to sort things out with British Army formations because, as is said above, sometimes divisions and brigades were not field force formations, merely administrative organisations.  A similar thing happened much later when the districts became "regenerative divisions", I think they were called - so 1 Div and 3 Div were active, while 2, 4 and 5 basically the former UK military districts.  I can't remember the full details now, but I'm sure they're accessible somewhere on the internet.

 

10 68

[M.Rimmer]

Clive, REME245 and 10FM68 thank you for helping me to at least start to grasp British unit designations.  Looking at the link posted by 10FM68 if my understanding is correct it seems there are three likely units my Land Rover could have belonged to, 278, 279 or 280 Field Regiments, would you agree with that?. 

Matt.

[REME 245]

If I am reading it correctly two of those regiments merged in 1961 so you are down to two.    The book you need to continued your research is this one.     https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Territorial-Artillery-1908-1988-Norman-E-H-Litchfield-SIGNED-COPY-/192306330894

Unfortunately my copy is in storage and I may not have access to it for a few weeks.   If no one else on this forum has a copy order it from your local library.