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simon king

Guy Martin - Mk IV Female Tank replica

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Both myself and Tim Hewitt attended the service in front of Ashford's MkIV Tank this morning. It was very well attended and glad that I was able to be there. The Royal Tank Regiment were involved and a new plaque has been placed on the plinth, unveiled by a Challenger tank crew member.

A replica WW1 tank was brought down from Cambridge by a living history group and parked in the street close by.

Ashford Tank ceremony.JPG

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I did watch Guy's programme last night and rather enjoyed it. To be honest, not driving through Lincoln was eminently sensible in my view as it was awful tight for space. I find driving the lorry through crowds on a rally field is pretty scary so taking an unproven caterpillar with poor visibility through a confined space would have been foolhardy. A great shame though.

Taking it to the battlefield instead was an excellent idea. My cousin, Lt Alfred Tripe, commanded 'Eclipse 2' at that battle so it meant a lot to me. Sadly Eclipse 2 was destroyed by an artillery shell exploding in the commanders position on the second day.

I shall look forward to seeing 'Deborah II' in due course.

Steve.

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It is very impressive and I enjoyed the programme. I was a little disappointed to hear the narrator state that Chasestead produced all the smaller parts including gun mounts as that was not true.  I made all four complete gun mounts together with the drivers controls. (B stands for brake, Guy)^_^

At least we got a mention in the  credits!

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Enjoyed the program pity it didn't get to drive through Lincoln as planned the alternate poignant. Look forward to seeing the tank, from the program it looks a beautifully engineered a tribute to what can be achieved

       

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Thought the project was very good,just curious as to how it was funded and who owns it ?

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I did watch it, very interesting project from the great Techno companies to the Nerd in the backroom. What a marvellous collaberation. Taking it Cambri was the best thing to do. Far more poiniant. 

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On ‎03‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:25 PM, simon king said:

Anybody know much about this -apparently to be the subject of a Channel 4 documentary marking the centenary of Cambrai. Seems that the hull has been made by JCB and that it will use modern mechanicals.

Press are reporting that there appears to be some hiccup with driving it through Lincoln due to Health and Safety  concerns

Police were worried about stopping it, if it ran away with crowds on both sides of the high street. Be some none technical type.

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8 hours ago, Peakrec said:

Police were worried about stopping it, if it ran away with crowds on both sides of the high street. Be some none technical type.

No it is the Worst Possible Scenario. Suppose that bearing had given way throwing fragments outside?  You'd also have a  load of MOPS with head up personal music, mind in neuteral wandering about, just not on.

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19 minutes ago, Ashcollection said:

Think there are a couple of A7V's replicas about already.

Forum member Bob Grundy built a A7V some years ago, it was seen at the Tank Museum. See this thread from 2009;

 

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Sorry to throw water on your fire. Some of the engineering was very good. Some would have made Heath Robinson wince. Its appearance as a replica is as it should be. I think some of the hands on restorations that have been and are being carried out by forum members have a better tale to tell and are far more accurate and interesting. Also individuals carrying out research on their restoration has more depth and meaning.  It served a purpose honouring the fallen but it could have been a lot better. I think it ended up a TV program with a contiuity presenter. As I said at the start this is my opinion.

Edited by john1950
addition

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It's not, nor has ever been called a restoration. It is just a reproduction of sorts for a tv program.

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Spot on Adrian, I think people are getting confused with the real world and TV world, done both, both are good but very different. reminds me of a line from the Simson's years ago. Homer asked why a stage hand was painting patches on a horse, "so it looks like a cow on screen" "what happens when you need a horse? We tape a load of cats together" and on an earlier rant in this thread, Fred bless him is no longer with us, he was any Engineers hero, Guy Martin isn't Fred but if he sparks an interest in engineering to only 1 child growing up then he's matched Fred. and will be someone's hero as well. Health and safety is here to stay, we could go back to the old day of exploding boilers and trucks with no brakes mowing people down and asbestos everywhere. The world has changed, preserve the past and then move with it, work with it, round it, under it what ever it takes to get the job done. or get off haha. I thought it was an excellent program, showed 3d and VR very well and a snapshot of how it is used in engineering, a huge amount of ingenuity will have gone into making that tank look right using modern skills. and I think taking it to Cambrai and naming it Debora 2 was more fitting than a drive in Lincoln. that's my rant over.

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I finally managed to catch the programme on 4Seven last night & thought that all-in-all it was pretty good. The tank itself looked superb & definitely is something I plan on seeing next year. Mr Martin's happy-go-lucky folksy act wears a bit thin after a while for me though, but that's just personal preference. The fact he seemed to have deliberately not even done the most basic of reading-up about the subject at hand just came across as a bit daft as well.

Hopefully the footage of the state of Lincoln's High Street & the lack of room to manouever/clearances might put to rest some of H&S/PC gone mad brigade. As should the fact that they couldn't even keep it on the dead straight road they eventually did drive it on... :whistle:

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1 hour ago, Ashcollection said:

Spot on Adrian, I think people are getting confused with the real world and TV world, done both, both are good but very different. reminds me of a line from the Simson's years ago. Homer asked why a stage hand was painting patches on a horse, "so it looks like a cow on screen" "what happens when you need a horse? We tape a load of cats together" and on an earlier rant in this thread, Fred bless him is no longer with us, he was any Engineers hero, Guy Martin isn't Fred but if he sparks an interest in engineering to only 1 child growing up then he's matched Fred. and will be someone's hero as well. Health and safety is here to stay, we could go back to the old day of exploding boilers and trucks with no brakes mowing people down and asbestos everywhere. The world has changed, preserve the past and then move with it, work with it, round it, under it what ever it takes to get the job done. or get off haha. I thought it was an excellent program, showed 3d and VR very well and a snapshot of how it is used in engineering, a huge amount of ingenuity will have gone into making that tank look right using modern skills. and I think taking it to Cambrai and naming it Debora 2 was more fitting than a drive in Lincoln. that's my rant over.

I said guy Martin needed to stop attempting to be Fred...and get his own act

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1 hour ago, Ashcollection said:

Spot on Adrian, I think people are getting confused with the real world and TV world, done both, both are good but very different. reminds me of a line from the Simson's years ago. Homer asked why a stage hand was painting patches on a horse, "so it looks like a cow on screen" "what happens when you need a horse? We tape a load of cats together" and on an earlier rant in this thread, Fred bless him is no longer with us, he was any Engineers hero, Guy Martin isn't Fred but if he sparks an interest in engineering to only 1 child growing up then he's matched Fred. and will be someone's hero as well. Health and safety is here to stay, we could go back to the old day of exploding boilers and trucks with no brakes mowing people down and asbestos everywhere. The world has changed, preserve the past and then move with it, work with it, round it, under it what ever it takes to get the job done. or get off haha. I thought it was an excellent program, showed 3d and VR very well and a snapshot of how it is used in engineering, a huge amount of ingenuity will have gone into making that tank look right using modern skills. and I think taking it to Cambrai and naming it Debora 2 was more fitting than a drive in Lincoln. that's my rant over.

In regards health n safety

We could go back to the days of common sense as well

Where people were schooled properly...thought about what they were going to do before doing it and took responsibility for themselves and considered how their actions might effect others...

 

We see emptyheads everywhere now:

At work...

Driving along on the roads... 

on the TV & radio...

in positions of influence & power... 

In decision making... 

 

 

I'm sick of em all I'll tell you... 

 

Edited by flandersflyer
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this thread is getting funny. common sense does prevail 99% of the time, but when you have 100 litigation lawyers watching you like a hawk it tends to put off most officials. Seen it happen. get over it and move on. Again I'll point to a sketch in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy where they put all the middle management and they like on a space ship and send them into the sun every few years, unfortunately we don't have the technology to do that yet, but the likes of Richard Branson and Elon Musk and a few others are working on that at the moment.  and a question to all those who know how mechanical things work and can do the calculations. Regarding tanks in confined places, If the tank is 30ft long in a 20ft wide street with people between the walls and the tank both sides 2 deep shoulder to shoulder, if the tank spun on the spot due to a gearbox or steering failure how many people would you squish? however unlikely I'm sure that would have been something that was considered. 

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I think the drive over the cambrai battlefield and the silence they observed was a much better idea than the Lincoln one. The council lost out, maybe they'll fund it next time they re asked.(if they ever are!!)

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"Your first job is to find your successor..."  so-said the outgoing chairman of our club many years ago.  Kids with enthusiasm for engineering, dust, grease and skinned knuckles!?  Ash... you could not have said it better.  That's our challenge...

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Statement regarding the Guy Martin WWI tank programme

Following the airing of the programme on Channel 4 on Sunday 19th November, many members of the public have formed the impression that Lincolnshire Police refused to allow the tank to be part of the Lincoln parade. In response to a number of comments we have received, we feel it would be helpful to clarify the actual circumstances.

Members of Lincoln’s Safety Advisory Group met with programme producers as soon as the group were informed of Guy’s intention to drive the tank along the High Street.

Safety Advisory Groups (SAGs) were formed nationally as a result of some serious incidents at several events (such as Hillsborough 1989).  They are independently chaired and include representatives from a number of agencies including City of Lincoln Council, Lincolnshire Police, Ambulance Service and Fire Service, Emergency Planning and Lincolnshire Highways. The role of the group is to provide advice and guidance to organisers to ensure their events operate safely.

Chief Supt Mark Housley explained: “All the partners in the SAG were thrilled to hear of the plans to bring the replica Tank to Lincoln but whilst the SAG were open minded,  several issues were raised and a number of requirements identified to ensure that any risk to the community was mitigated.  As the public will appreciate, the Remembrance Day parade attracts a few thousand people in Lincoln, with a demographic that includes both young and senior citizens The addition of Guy Martin and his tank would expand that number considerably and, therefore, action needed to be taken by the production company to ensure the safety of all participants. We were also minded that the event is a sombre event and that we should respect the occasion.

“Accordingly, plans needed to be in place to ensure that everyone could participate in the event in a safe way, and that the entertainment of the tank did not distract from the importance of remembrance. The event was not refused but further work was suggested to ensure safety. Following discussions, the production company made the decision that France, where the tank was first used, was also a positive option.  Relocating there would allow them to meet all the programme’s criteria, which was to recognise the brave people involved with the tank invention, construction and use and also to produce an entertainment programme”.

20 Nov 17 12:22 PM

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The above statement regarding Guy Martin’s facsimile of a MK IV Tank to me gives the impression SAG or local authority Safety Advisor Group are a statutory body. The HSE website offers this in respect of SAG's. They are non-statutory bodies and so do not have legal powers or responsibilities, and are not empowered to approve or prohibit events from taking place. Event organisers and others involved in the running of an event, retain the principal legal duties for ensuring public safety. The event is passed any impact Mr Martin or his Tank may have had on visitor numbers and there safety for Armistice Day in Lincoln is hypothetical. On a positive for me a running WW-1 Tank albeit manufactured using modern production methods old fashioned ingenuity with great skill. So Guy Martin didn’t appear to know much regarding the subject, isn’t that’s down to the production team prepping him before letting him loose on camera. I enjoyed the program as I suspect many others on here did too at least it didn’t air-brush history

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