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Scotland to Ban Petrol and diesel car sales by 2032

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I missed this yesterday when looking at the First Ministers statement, question is what about historic vehicles? The policy is different from Central Government

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/scotland-to-ban-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-by-2032/ar-AArlFT2?li=AA8sb7&ocid=ientp

 

I often wonder if the Krankie lives in the real word. Politics aside there are problems in making such declarations:

  • EV's currently cost a lot more than their ICE versions.
  • Commercial EV's are still very much in the future - and commercials are the biggest polluters. Same goes for buses and coaches.
  • EV range is still very much a limiting factor. The average now is around 120 miles between needing a recharge. EV's with a greater range go up considerably in cost - currently only TESLA offer a 300 mile+ range version and that is over £90,000 new.
  • The Grid is already nearing overload due to the closure of coal, oil and gas fired power stations and the lack of performance of the much hyped wind, solar and tidal systems. I've read estimates that it will take 10 years plus of heavy investment in new power stations to get the Grid back up the capacity of a few years ago, never mind what will be required if 90% of motoring goes EV.
  • Most UK cities have a major problem with charging EV's. The design of them, with multi-tier housing and close cramped streets, make home charging a nightmare and where it is possible then under current technology you would have power cords crossing the street all night long Quite aside from the pedestrian hazards the copper thieves would think Xmas had come. There are plans for wireless charging loops to be installed in streets - again this is at least a decade away - more like two decades

 

So if the Krankie decides to force the issue I suspect she will not be First Minister much longer.......

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Politicians of course come out with all this sort of cr*p in the full knowledge that they won't be around to take the stick when it all fails, or even try to implement it in the first place. Plus of course British (and now Scottish) governments are notoriously without any sort of technical savvy.

 

Gordon <rant mode off>

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Note the word "solely" - hybrids will still be OK as they're the only real option for non-city dwellers anyway.

 

Andy

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What constitutes a hybrid?

you can move a Landy on its starter motor if you have it in first with the clutch up. That's electric? 😬

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So if the Scots ban petrol and disiel, what' are they going to sell when the become independent and barricade the North Sea? :drive:

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Typical daily gob$hite from fuehrelaine Nicola , she needs to get the Edinburgh trams fully sorted , then the Borders railway electrified with double-tracked as far as Carlisle, before she starts on cars.

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As we are on the subject, a few weeks ago an overseas friend sent the following, I think it originated in North America:

 

The Electric car boondoggle

 

 

I always wondered why we never saw a cost analysis on what it actually costs to operate an electric car. Now we know why.

 

 

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service.

 

 

The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.

 

 

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles ... Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead-end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.

 

 

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following:

 

 

Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.

 

 

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors...and he writes...For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

 

 

It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

 

 

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $116 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

 

 

The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000........So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Mind if I nick this to post elsewhere Richard??

 

 

As we are on the subject, a few weeks ago an overseas friend sent the following, I think it originated in North America:

 

The Electric car boondoggle

 

I always wondered why we never saw a cost analysis on what it actually costs to operate an electric car. Now we know why.

 

 

 

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service.

 

 

 

The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.

 

 

 

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles ... Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead-end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.

 

 

 

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following:

 

 

 

Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.

 

 

 

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors...and he writes...For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

 

 

 

It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

 

 

 

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $116 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

 

 

 

The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000........So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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There has been a change to Zero Emission Vehicle Descriptions over the last few years . They are now Zero Emission at point of travel, so the CO2 etc pumping out of the over worked power station burning extra oil, coal gas, or exicting more neutron is never mentioned. Nor is the extra power, oil CO2, enviromental costs off mining and refining rare earths, I could go on.

 

I have an old P38, it was built from thre vehicles considered beyon economic repair. So I've saved the enviromental cost of one new vehicle, plus reduced through re cycling the enviromental cost of scrapping two others. And you tell me that's not Enviromentally friendly?

 

Quick thought: I found an articale in the London Times from the mid 1800, complaining that if something wasn't done to control London traffic the writer estimated by 1950 the City would be 10 feet deep in Horse S*it.

Edited by Tony B

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What constitutes a hybrid?

you can move a Landy on its starter motor if you have it in first with the clutch up. That's electric? 😬

 

Might have a bit of a problem with the range, though!

 

Andy

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Mind if I nick this to post elsewhere Richard??

 

 

Go ahead, it was one of those emails that goes around, so don't credit me for it.

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I missed this yesterday when looking at the First Ministers statement, question is what about historic vehicles? The policy is different from Central Government

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/scotland-to-ban-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-by-2032/ar-AArlFT2?li=AA8sb7&ocid=ientp

 

Don't worry, it will become an "aspiration" after a few years when they discover it's impossible.

jh

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OK, so I'm in a pretty sunny part of north America and while an electric car isn't right for me, some of the quoted information has problems:

 

Charging an EV can be done quickly or slowly, if you aren't in a rush 20 Amps is fine, if you want it charged quickly and have 75amps great but you are moving the same number of electrons, you are just charging your car in one hour rather than four. So, if everybody goes home and plugs their cars in at the same moment there might be an issue, stagger the arrival times and the load averages out to manageable pretty quickly. Most new houses or remodels around here are being equipped with a 30-amp service to the garage for EV charging. That's the same as an electric clothes dryer, hardly a technology that broke the grid when it came out.

Renewable energy is growing much more quickly that any other power supply and around here most of that is taking the form of rooftop solar. If you make 20-amps of power and set to slow charge, you could actually break even. This is one of the reasons Tesla is selling solar carports. Now, it's true that solar is a daytime technology and people tend to charge in the evening, but commercial buildings are also getting rooftop solar and often have much heavier electric services so charging at work or a mix of home and work will further reduce the strain. Sure, there will be local problems but I think just saying the grid will break is a shallow view.

 

Yes, it may well take 10 hours to *fully* charge a battery, assuming a typical 30-amp service. Any of you who have charged an automotive battery or laptop, or your phone for that matter know that it's not a linear thing. You get a much faster charge when it's low, decreasing as the battery voltage increases. So that 10 hours for a full charge may well result in an 80% charge in an hour or two.

Tesla quick chargers (that 75-amp thing discussed earlier) will do something like 50% charge in 15 minutes. It could easily take me 15 minutes to drive both ways to a filling station (using more fuel) and wait in the queue some days.

 

Due to battery technology, safety margins, charge and discharge rates, etc. The Volt battery isn't going to be nearly empty when the generator kicks on. I suspect it will still have about 30%-50% charge, this way the car still has full acceleration should it be needed and you don't drain the battery too much and shorten it's life.

I can't remotely follow the charging cost math below.

Around here I pay $0.15 per KW/h of power, but actually that's a lie, by the time it's all done it's a bit over double that, so lets say $0.32/

So, 25 miles=65% of a battery is about 10.4KWH, for me that's $3.33 to go 25 miles, so $0.13/mile.

Ok, so my 1979 Datsun does better, right now... a few years ago the advantage would have been to the Volt and I can't make gasoline on my rooftop like I could electricity.

 

Onward to cost of ownership.

Car dealers in this part of the world make most of their money on service and repairs, the rest they make on lending money (financing), anything the happen to make actually selling cars is pretty incidental. The electric car that Henry Ford's wife drove

https://cleantechnica.com/2014/04/11/henry-fords-wife-wouldnt-drive-model-t-kept-electric-car/

required almost nothing aside from a new battery to run again. Electric motors have two bearings and that's about it for moving parts.

So, your service department at the dealership just isn't going to do any engine work and you the electric car owner aren't going to be paying for any engine work, for the life of the vehicle.

I'll compare this to the old diesel/petrol situation. In this country you can expect to pay a heavy premium for a diesel vehicle and yet people pay it gladly, particularly the people who can do the math because they have accountants (businesses). Why, well partly because the vehicle life is so much greater and maintenance is so much lower.

 

Oh, we already have electric heavy trucks plying the lanes of our motorways around here. Mostly local delivery, but I see them.

 

So, yeah, they aren't for everyone but they are also not some great conspiracy doomed to failure.

 

 

 

As we are on the subject, a few weeks ago an overseas friend sent the following, I think it originated in North America:

 

The Electric car boondoggle

I always wondered why we never saw a cost analysis on what it actually costs to operate an electric car. Now we know why.

 

 

 

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service.

 

 

 

The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.

 

 

 

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles ... Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead-end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.

 

 

 

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following:

 

 

 

Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.

 

 

 

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors...and he writes...For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

 

 

 

It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

 

 

 

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $116 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

 

 

 

The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000........So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by teletech

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There's only one sensible answer to all this rubbish...

 

 

I prefer this one:

 

Andy

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As we are on the subject, a few weeks ago an overseas friend sent the following, I think it originated in North America:

 

The Electric car boondoggle

 

I always wondered why we never saw a cost analysis on what it actually costs to operate an electric car. Now we know why.

 

 

 

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service.

 

 

 

The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.

 

 

 

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles ... Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead-end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.

 

 

 

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following:

 

 

 

Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.

 

 

 

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors...and he writes...For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

 

 

 

It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

 

 

 

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $116 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

 

 

 

The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000........So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said, we know its a none starter, totally rubbish, Europe and the world will have our excess petrol, diesel to run their cars on. While we are sent back to the stone age.

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Just a load of hot air, The little half of the Krankie's just can't stop herself, not content with downing street wanting to do it by 2040 she wants Scotland ahead of the race by 8 years....... guess there will be a good trade in Blackmarket petrol and Diesel on the border.

 

Many years ago, one of the ships I was on was charted to cover a few weeks form Cairnryan to Larne, I was unaware of the change and found out a few days before I was due back, I phoned ( no computer or internet then) the Rail enquiries.........

 

I lived in South Cumbria at the time and looking at the road atlas didn't think it would take too long to get there, how wrong I was, it would take just under 9 hours on the train and even then this was to Stranraer.........

 

I went on my GSXR 750 in the end, what a Journey....... still a lot quicker than the train, but one things for sure regarding Billy Connolly's statement, Scotland is a lovely place put no body lives there...... I would think its the last place you want to be traveling around in an Electric car.

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Presumably this rush to electrification will accelerate falling oil revenues, have they thought this one through up there?

 

Ah maybe it will still be used but in oil fired power stations to meet the extra demand to charge up the cars? :wow:

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Coincidence ? Nicola Sturgeon - yesterday Nissan announced the 'new' model battery Leaf that goes a greater distance on a full battery charge (I recall watching a documentary on the original battery Leaf claims). Of course NS didn't mention her Sunderland origins - the days propaganda opportunity the two words Scotland + Scottish. Always makes me laugh , you don't hear Theresa Mary banging-on England + English (probably too much to fit in Wales & Northern Ireland too).

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I replied to this before I saw Teletech's post but yeah, this article is pretty full of holes. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if A lot of this stuff is put out by the Petroleum industry. I also don't believe they will ban petrol , but it could become harder to get. The market will drive it, if 9 out of 10 cars drive by the station what's to keep that business open? Only so many sodas and bags of pretzels you can sell in a day, and people only buy those after they stopped for fuel

 

 

As we are on the subject, a few weeks ago an overseas friend sent the following, I think it originated in North America:

 

The Electric car boondoggle

 

I always wondered why we never saw a cost analysis on what it actually costs to operate an electric car. Now we know why.

At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service.

they certainly don't. A 30 amp outlet is standard, it can accept a 75amp for the "super charge " feature which rams the battery full in 2 or 3 hours. I don't think many buyers opt for this feature simply because the cost of running 75 amp to a garage would be tremendous,

 

 

 

The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
I don't know about over there, but any new home here is now built with central heating and air conditioning, 150 to 200 amps is standard . You could plug in 2 Teslas into dual 30amp outlets in literally every house at night when there is excess charging capacity and it wouldn't make a dent in the power available

 

 

 

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles ... Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead-end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.
I don't know why this is missed as it's an obvious point, but Ecars get charged at night. There is so much excess capacity at night that some Hydroelectric plants here use that power to pump water back upstream

 

The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000........So the American Government wants loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.....
not sure what new car you can get over there for $15K, here even a new Fiat is $17K.

The new Nissan Leaf is £21,680 for the 24kWh model. That's about $27,400. , same as any new mid size sedan. goes 245 miles on a charge too :red:

I have an old P38, it was built from thre vehicles considered beyond economic repair. So I've saved the enviromental cost of one new vehicle, plus reduced through re cycling the environmental cost of scrapping two others. And you tell me that's not Enviromentally friendly?.
absolutely true Tony, making any new vehicle consumes an absurb amount of energy. I read a figure somewhere that if your going from a typical 25 to 30mpg gallon sedan to an EV, you would need ot drive the EV something like a million miles before the energy savings balance out. The most environmentally friendly thing you can do is keep an old car on the road, simple as that.

Generation is also a problem, wind doesn't blow much at night and the sun certainly doesn't shine. But if we can generate clean during the day and only use fossil at night, that would be a good change no?

 

Presumably this rush to electrification will accelerate falling oil revenues, have they thought this one through up there?

Ah maybe it will still be used but in oil fired power stations to meet the extra demand to charge up the cars? :wow:

don't worry, there are and will be plenty of things that will only work by burning fuel. Airplanes for instance, you will never get a 767 off the ground on electricity. International Ocean freight is probly another, oh and the most important one of all, no Main battle tank will ever charge into the fray on a battery :-D

 

Coincidence ? Nicola Sturgeon - yesterday Nissan announced the 'new' model battery Leaf that goes a greater distance on a full battery charge (I recall watching a documentary on the original battery Leaf claims). Of course NS didn't mention her Sunderland origins - the days propaganda opportunity the two words Scotland + Scottish. Always makes me laugh , you don't hear Theresa Mary banging-on England + English (probably too much to fit in Wales & Northern Ireland too).
holy crap, they even took out the brake pedal :o

 

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/142169-new-nissan-leaf-unveiled-improved-design-more-power-and-235-mile-range

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Whilst on the subject of Amps, don't forget that US domestic supplies run on half the voltage that UK ones do, so require twice the current to deliver the same amount of power. Direct comparison of numbers doesn't work.

 

I was talking to a neighbour over the Bank Holiday weekend who had just come back from a month in Germany working with a colleague who owns a Tesla S. The trick apparently isn't to charge the battery overnight but to keep it topped up by "sipping" through the day when stopping for lunch or a cup of coffee. With the Tesla "supercharger" that's very effective for someone doing a lot of mileage on relatively short trips, especially as the charging is free for the life of the car. You do, of course, need the infrastructure to do so.

 

Andy

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Without going into the merits or otherwise of the ban, it is important to remember that it is the sale of new petrol & diesel vehicles that is going to be banned, not their use.

 

According to some industry analysts, by 2032 hybrid and electric technology will be so advanced that there won't be any demand for pure internal combustion engined vehicles anyway.

 

Typical politicians: decreeing something that is going to happen anyway, to make themselves look good.....

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Of course NS didn't mention her Sunderland origins - the days propaganda opportunity the two words Scotland + Scottish. Always makes me laugh , you don't hear Theresa Mary banging-on England + English (probably too much to fit in Wales & Northern Ireland too).

 

I'm not a fan of hers, less so as time goes by but it is her job. Carwyn Jones will talk about Wales, Arleen Foster will talk about Northern Ireland. Theresa May is PM of the UK. I suppose the super mayors are the first incarnation

of the much needed devolved rule in England. All meant to move some of the riches etc away from London.

Lets not get anti Scottish, leave politics etc out! ;)

 

 

Back to the real subject.

Again where will the old car market be in years to come. Never mind electric and hybrid, modern cars are not home mechanic friendly.

Iain

Edited by Mk3iain
Spelling of course...

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