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It's the promised upgrade for the few remaining tanks in the inventory, designed to 'increase lethality and survivability'. According to 'sources' Ajax have these few painted thus as they are the 'urban warfare specialists'. I wonder if before taking Berlin, they'll retake some of Britain's 'no-go' areas? More than a pinch of salt needed here! ;)

I wonder how they'd blend in within the 'town' on Salisbury Plain training area? Wrong sort of houses, methinks, so perhaps they'll stick out like sore thumbs.

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I notice that it is presumably a First Aid kit marked with a white cross on a green square, more reminiscent of a First Aid kit in an office or factory, than an AFV.

 

Is this the new thing now? Is it a PC attempt get rid of a Red Cross that might cause offence by being wrongly construed as a red cross of the Crusades rather than the symbol IRC?

 

Incidentally the blurb with that link describes black as a fourth colour. I've not seen black on any in-service pictures. Yes I have seen some privately owned Land Rovers intricately painted incorporating black amidst piddly little rectangles of the other colours. The original concept of the instigator stated there were three colours of large blocks irrespective of the size of the vehicle.

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I notice that it is presumably a First Aid kit marked with a white cross on a green square, more reminiscent of a First Aid kit in an office or factory, than an AFV.

 

Is this the new thing now? Is it a PC attempt get rid of a Red Cross that might cause offence by being wrongly construed as a red cross of the Crusades rather than the symbol IRC?

 

From an article about an email from the ICRC, who govern the use of the red cross:

"If the red cross emblem or similar signs are used for other purposes, no matter how beneficial or inconsequential they may seem, the special significance of the emblem will be diminished," the email reads. "The red cross emblem or similar designs are not general signs of ambulances, health care, first aid, the nursing or medical profession, or similar matters. Moreover, they are not signs to be used for commercial purposes, such as for advertising campaigns or on products."

 

So general first aid kits are white cross on green, because -- strictly speaking -- it's not legal for them to be a red cross. There's a lot of stuff knocking around that does have a red cross on it, though, and it's pretty much impossible for the ICRC to police every single occurrence of it.

Edited by Tamber
added quote blocks

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It's just that I thought the Defence Council had the authority to use of the Red Cross emblem under the Geneva Conventions Act 1957. I wondered whether there might have been a recent change of policy as I have never previously seen a white cross/green emblem on an AFV, first aid kit etc in military service.

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Military ambulances would be covered I giuess, as they are not weapons of war but are aid vehicles or whatever they call them, and so are allowed to use the red cross, ie don't shoot me I am here to save people...

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Isn't the answer a bit more basic than this? If you put a noticeable red cross on stuff, it simply gives the baddies a convenient aiming point.

Can remember reading about a Soviet army observer at a NATO exercise expressing complete incredulity that there were vehicles with big red crosses on, buzzing around the battlefield. His response - 'Those would be the first things we'd shoot at!'

Seems, 40 years on, our military may have taken that on board...!

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Clive, black was generally used for the wheels/roadwheels and under wheel arches.

 

Cheers,

Terry

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Terry yes obviously a dark & un-patterned scheme is appropriate for those areas.

 

I was quoting from a copy of letter I have from the then Garrison Commander who devised the scheme stating that he used only three colours & the patterns were to be large irrespective of the size of the vehicle.

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Going back to the entitlement to display a red cross on a white background, armies have had a far longer entitlement to use the symbol than have Red Cross Societies.

 

I know things have changed but historically it was conceived for the use of the medical services of armies as laid down in the Geneva Convention 1864 with no recognition of any Red Cross Societies let alone their entitlement to adopt the symbol.

 

Scan0149.jpg

 

The military use of the symbol was emphasised further in the Geneva Convention 1906 with the State authorising the use of the symbol by Red Cross Societies only to render assistance to army medical services.

 

Scan0150.jpg

 

Scan0151.jpg

 

The relevant 1906 Articles emphasising the military purpose of the symbol.

 

Scan0152.jpg

 

So going back to green first aid box on the Challenger, has Article 19 been revoked?

Edited by fv1609
Addition of 1906 Articles

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Most first aid kits on the market these days have the white cross on a green field. Perhaps it has been changed to align with what is commonly seen in use, despite the fact that they have the right to use the red cross?

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A quick search of the internet shows that the White Cross of a Green Background is now used as the symbol for 'First Aid' equipment because the UK agreed to comply with ISO 7010 in 2012; for all graphical safety signage. https://www.iso.org/standard/54432.html

The European Union adopted it as EN ISO 7010 and the UK implemented it through BS EN ISO 7010, replacing the previous regulation BS 5499. I'm no lawyer but I guess that is why everyone in the UK has to use the new symbols.

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A quick search of the internet shows that the White Cross of a Green Background is now used as the symbol for 'First Aid' equipment because the UK agreed to comply with ISO 7010 in 2012; for all graphical safety signage. https://www.iso.org/standard/54432.html

The European Union adopted it as EN ISO 7010 and the UK implemented it through BS EN ISO 7010, replacing the previous regulation BS 5499. I'm no lawyer but I guess that is why everyone in the UK has to use the new symbols.

 

Certainly all the first aid boxes at work were green with white crosses before I retired last year.

 

jh

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Article 19 revoked? Perhaps not as red 'red cross' brassards can be seen worn by HM Armed Forces medics amongst those deployed to the hurricane disaster zones in the West Indies.

Perhaps Brexit will provide relief from EU dictatorial gobbledigook impositions on Great Britain and if we prevent continued leftie-liberal PC pandering, we shall get our red crosses back (and odd shaped fruit and veg!) :laugh:

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I know things have changed but historically it was conceived for the use of the medical services of armies as laid down in the Geneva Convention 1864 with no recognition of any Red Cross Societies let alone their entitlement to adopt the symbol.

 

What became the ICRC formed in 1863 and in the same year held a conference (in Geneva) on the treatment of wounded in wartime. it was this conference that led the Swiss state to hold the 1864 conference to formally adopt some of the proposals from 1863- of which the article you quote was one.

 

White cross on green background has been in use for far longer than it has been an ISO symbol. Green crosses have been the symbol for pharmacies for as long as i can remember (which is certainly not as long as many others on this forum, but still...) and we certainly had one at the end of our road in the early 90s with a green cross shaped sign.

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What became the ICRC formed in 1863 and in the same year held a conference (in Geneva) on the treatment of wounded in wartime. it was this conference that led the Swiss state to hold the 1864 conference to formally adopt some of the proposals from 1863- of which the article you quote was one.

 

I don't know, there is no mention of the 1863 conference in RAMC Training 1911 from where I took those extracts. Strangely the 1908 & 1899 editions make no references the Convention, nor do the forerunners for RAMSC 1885 & 1894. All of them refer to use of the red cross on white to identify hospitals & ambulances (in the original meaning not just ambulance wagons)

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