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Grease monkey

Brake dodge WC51/52

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Hi Tony and Nick,

 

Nick, i have bought just the rubber parts for the brake cylinders and cleaned the inside with the special grinding tool so for me no issues.

 

Tony, what you suggest is what i was thinking of this morning. At least you have the maximum of brake shoe use on this way.

 

thanks

bram

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Funny reading your thread "Grease Monkey" , about Dodge brakes, as we have just finished sorting the brakes with pretty similar circumstances. One thing you talk about with the master cylinder is that you should only have the piston and it comes to rest on the washer and circlip, no rubber "buffer" as you were eluding to. It has to return fully and what is said about brake fluid expanding is correct, that is why you need that free play, and the piston returning fully. I would have thought mine is set at about 2" , 3 to 4 inches sounds a bit excessive. The reason for this is that our pedal setup, we have moved closer to the floor to make it more easier to transition from the accelerator pedal to the brake. The brake pedal stops 4" from the floor, and feels a nice action. And yes we have taken about 4 test runs to readjust the brakes, mainly only the rear ones, the front seem way more true and perfect than our back ones and every drum was machined with new linnings. One thing we did note is that we seemed to get a different reading regarding the clearance of the shoe to the drum after you had put the wheel back on and tightened the wheel nuts. If I had my time over again with machining drums, I would make sure you use the hub that it attaches to on the vehicle for setting up in the Lathe and also bolt at least a 10mm plate on the outside where the wheel rim normally goes and do up the wheel nuts on this plate. The drums seem to have" flex" in them and you are dealing with Thous of inches when machining. You may notice on the drum face where the rim bolts on the is about a 5mm or so doubling plate , look across this face where the studs stick out, check for any distortion on this surface as well. Another little problem we had was a wheel was not releasing properly when the brake was applied. The problem was one of the piston was a little rough in the bore and was not going in and out in a smooth action. All my cylinders were stainless sleeved. Just another Dodge owners perspective on brakes, Cheers Andrew.

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Hi Andrew,

 

in the maintenance manual it is said that you have to put the rim nuts back on to have a good alignmend. As i thought it will not have that much impact i didn't do it. Your right about the fron brakes, they are working, when braking it dives. So i will do an alignmend again on the back brakes and see how it goes.

 

Where are you in New Zealand? I hev an oncle living there doing revisions on old motorcycles, specialy BSA and collecting the big v twins. he's next to auckland.

 

Brdgs Bram

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Never did read the maintence manual! Only do that after I have done the job!, Live about 6hrs south of your Uncle, cheers Andrew.

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So adjusted the brakes again, still a little bit spongy but when i did a brake test i left some pressious rubber on the street. I have to push the peddal completely to the bottom to have a good brake stop. Were getting there it will take time. This weekend liberation of Noyon(France), then after that again adjustment.

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Hi Grease monkey. Going back to your post no.12, you mention a "rubber ring" (this is a Wagner Lockheed system- google it)

I will give you a few hints as there are many slightly differing kits for 1 1/4" master cylinders.

The rubber ring is the first thing that goes down the hole. It sits against the end of the cylinder. Then the residual line pressure valve goes in(a metal disc thing with holes in the bulged center) The convex part goes inside the spring. This valve holds fluid in the line. It has a rubber flap valve inside it. Fluid goes out through it, but the whole valve lifts off the rubber seal to return to the cylinder(fluid pressure pushes the valve off the seal) This means that you don't need to push the pedal far, before the brakes are on. This also helps to keep the seals of the wheel cylinders against the bores, which in turn helps to stop them leaking when parked up for a while.

On the piston at the rear is the secondary cup. This is the one you stretch onto the piston. At the front of the piston is the primary cup. This is a solid cup (no hole) with flutes at the back edge. Between the primary cup and the piston is a brass ring. Sometimes this brass ring is bonded to the back of the cup. Sometimes there is instead, a metal star arrangement riveted to the piston.

These primary cups are sold in various lengths. Let's assemble the M/cyl (going through in order)

rubber seal, valve, spring, primary cup, brass ring, piston assy, and the last two items, the big washer, followed by the circlip. (assemble using brake fluid as lube)

It is important to check that when it is all assembled (at rest) that the lips (front edge) of the cups, are to the rear of the two little holes (front is usually called the "primary" port, and the rear, the "transfer" port) you see when looking into the reservoir. You can check this with a very fine wire or something similar, being very careful not to damage the cups. With good light, you can see the cups go past the holes. This must happen.

The "Free board" adjustment of the pedal is there to aid this requirement. (the rod adjustment) It also allows for chassis flex etc. There is a screw to set the pedal height,(do this first)

The usual high standards of cleanliness and care need to be exercised.

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Dear Bluebell and Tony, thanks for your replies i will see after Noyon. Maybe i will by a new master brake cylinder, at least all is in good shape and keep the other as a spare. I want to sell the dodge so maybe the new one is the best option and have it quickly solved. I want to switch over to a jeep. Yes i know its not a dodge but easier to drive with for my family. I'm the only one who is driving the dodge and its true your not picking it up to have a quick drive to the supermarket easaly. Also going to normandie from my place takes 7-8 hours drive and when i get there i'm ready to be treated as a woonded soldier, no arms, no back and no legs in good shape anymore haha.

 

Bram

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Spoke to some one who explaned to me that the silicone brake fluid is a littlebit elastic, that explanes my spongy brake. Now it needs again an adjustment and/ or master brake cyl replacement or check up.

 

bram

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Gentleman,

one year gone a lot happened. Finaly i had it working so on my way to Normandie for D-day. Beïng there i could not brake normaly anymore, first braking to the left than to right. Adjusting no result. Changed the front flex hoses no help. Found out that the left front brake cyl one piston was stuck inside. Bought a new one and installed. Finally i could brake with two times pumping. The master brake cylinder had an internal leak and was pushing the fluid back in to the reservoir.

I have replaced just now the master brake cyl, didn't drive anymore since back from Normandie. Adjusted the brakes and purge the system. Now i have a good brake but when braking more strong the dodge turns verry strong to the left. What could be a solution? Can it be that, because i only changed the front LH wheel brake cyl; they are not the same with the movement? LH is having a longer sroke and there fore it's braking quicker? Shall i give more play on the LH?

Qustions questions but now looking for answers.

Brdgs Bram 

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Did you rebablance  braking on the wheels? Yes one cylinder may be pushing more than the other. Trouble is , shoes wear and so do the drums. Modern brakes self adjust. Dodge brakes , every time you change something you have to reset the entire brake clearances, front and back. Also the wheel cylinders are left and right handed. Did you fit the correct cylinder for the wheel?

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Hi Tony,

yes the cylinder was bought at a military shop specialists for ww2 vehilces in france. We have a lothere. Specialy in Normandie. What i will do is loosen a little the left and i will also clean again the right brake again. I did check and adjusted all the brakes yesterday. Keep you posted

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For what it's worth, I kept adjusting about 5 times! Suddenly! They all worked.

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Thanks Tony, most inspiring haha. Those wheels weight a ton. Got my new presennings today. Looks good but nowthe paint job needs to be done. After normandie i want to sell it. Want to buy a jeep back. More practical for me

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So latest update, found out that  my right front brakes where coverd with a kind of grease?????? Cleaned it and now its less turning to the left. I need to give some more slack to the LH brakes to compensate. Maybe in normandie i will buy a new RH brake cylinder so at least the two front ones are new. As said before i had them all overhauled but the LH front got stuck. Keep you posted.

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That's good. As I was told as a kid and keep saying 'A bugger if they won't go, a disater if they won't stop!'😁

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Master brake cyl is working fine but archh adjusting the brakes. Cleaned the RH front brake. Helped a little. If braking you see the dodge dive on the LH front side. Brake strong it turns 90 degrees on the direction

what i will do now is put the front completely up. Have some one push the brake and see on LH and RH when its braking and adjust the other side or give more slack  will also see if there is no air sneaky left

not much time left for normandie

keep you posted

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15 minutes ago, Grease monkey said:

Master brake cyl is working fine but archh adjusting the brakes. Cleaned the RH front brake. Helped a little. If braking you see the dodge dive on the LH front side. Brake strong it turns 90 degrees on the direction

what i will do now is put the front completely up. Have some one push the brake and see on LH and RH when its braking and adjust the other side or give more slack  will also see if there is no air sneaky left

not much time left for normandie

keep you posted

If your RH front cylinder is working then it sounds like you need to to change the brake shoes as despite cleaning they are obviously contaminated. Slackening the LH brake to compensate will not work.

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Hi Richard

what i will do is swap the RH front with the RH aft. At least the stearing wheel will not jump out of my hands. I will see for some new shoes in normandie. Since the postal delivery is as fast as a snale moving up hill i will not get the parts before leaving

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So Richard your tight those brake shoes are soaked with oil

I have swapped the shoes with the back ones. Its braking better. I will buy new brake linings and replace also the RH wheel brake cyl. I think that because LH is new there is a slight difference

By the way does any one have experiance with removing glued liners on the shoes?  

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