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enzus59

Aden Emergency. Vehicles colour.

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Hi All,

I am searching colour references (like BS381C or RAL) for vehicles and weapons used by British Army in Aden and Radfan 1961-1967.

 

From black and whiTe photos I found:

- 2 colours camo: light sand and black (or dark green). It is difficult to understand from pics;

- 1 colour camo: light sand;

- overall green, probabily deep bronze green (gloss or semigloss?).

 

Thanks in advcance for any help.

Regards

Enzus

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Enzus I would forget about RAL for British vehicles of that period. I think you will find "light sand" is BSC 381C No. 361 Light Stone.

 

PS Green of that period would be BSC 381C No.224 Deep Bronze Green, High Gloss.

Edited by fv1609
PS

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My saracen will be part of an Aden veterans parade in june.

Does anyone have any photos of the correct insignia/markings and where they should be placed.

I am trying to make it as 'Aden accurate' as i can for the day.

I gather there should be a light blue dhow to the right of drivers hatch ?

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=126005&stc=1

Sarry.jpg

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About BSC 381C No. 361 Light Stone i found a colour photo of L5 Pack Howitzer - 1st RHA 1965.

 

Sand colour looks different from Light Stone. It looks close to No.352 Pale Cream.

Dark colour looks a gloss black.

 

On other hand i found a photo with 2 colours camo and it looks with No.361 Light Stone and a matt dark green that is different from Deep Bronze Green.

 

Enzus

L5 sand and black ritaglio.jpg

ac4ac5149c168d94922146ba2a4ea0f3.jpg

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Light blue dhow? No, I suspect you're thinking of the blue in the Tripolitania District Barbary Dhow flash.

If you look at this link below, you'll see a nice single-masted arab dhow, facing left on a bright yellow rectangle, on the bumber of a Leyland Recovery truck. The flash is a variation of the pre-WW2 black and white flash where the arab dhow faced the other way. The yellow and black command flash was used too, by British forces in the then, Trucial States region:

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/album.php?albumid=630&attachmentid=69099

 

A better view of the flash perhaps, can be seen too on the photo below (not mine) from the web, for interest and discussion purposes only.

Stalwart Aden yellow black dhow flash.jpg

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attachment.php?attachmentid=126013&stc=1

 

That was a Cyclops 2RTR Saracen in Homs Barracks and Medenine Barracks, Tripoli from 1959-62, wire up as an ACV and served as the squadron leader's mount. i have the photos and other information. The Saracen probably was handed over to 14/20H who in Oct 1962, took over from Cyclops 2RTR at Medenine. Two years later, there was no armoured representation in Tripolitania so the vehicle may have headed into the RAOC Ord Depot in Malta or Cyprus. The photo above is not of the Saracen in 2RTR ownership. Besides, it looks like it's been 'spoiled' by a dark camouflage paint having been applied. The prongs welded on to the nose would be for Dannert wire coils, ideal for Aden and other trouble spots coming online closer to home!

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It's worth noting that any photos taken in Aden would have been in the 60s. Colour photography was pretty new then and accuracy of colours wasn't great; especially if the photos have been stored for many years before being scanned.

 

As Clive stated, the spec for the time was light stone and deep bronze green - I have little doubt that there were variations on this in the field though.

 

These photos were sent to me by a veteran that served in Aden. I don't own the copyright on them, but he did say that I could share them.

 

Cheers,

Terry

 

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As Clive stated, the spec for the time was light stone and deep bronze green - I have little doubt that there were variations on this in the field though.

 

Thanks so much. Do you have any idea about gloss black or dark green used? is it always a deep bronze green?

 

Enzus

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It's worth noting that any photos taken in Aden would have been in the 60s. Colour photography was pretty new then and accuracy of colours wasn't great; especially if the photos have been stored for many years before being scanned.

 

As Clive stated, the spec for the time was light stone and deep bronze green - I have little doubt that there were variations on this in the field though.

 

These photos were sent to me by a veteran that served in Aden. I don't own the copyright on them, but he did say that I could share them.

 

Cheers,

Terry

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=126071&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126073&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126074&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126075&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126076&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126077&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126078&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126072&stc=1

 

 

Can anyone see the pictures ??

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My images don't seem to have loaded. I'll try again...

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=126091&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126092&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126093&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126094&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126095&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126096&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126097&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=126098&stc=1

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9-25-2009_045.JPG

9-25-2009_047.jpg

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10-1-2009_003.jpg

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All ok now Terry thanks for posting. The black looks gloss & patterns much like the Hornets of Para Sqn RAC in 1965.

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No engine side panels, no tyre guards. not on parade. Great photos especially the engineers Half Track crane.

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I know the thread title is Aden emergency but what is the date of the latest colour photos? Possibly a range of dates?

 

The first photo is a Chieftain is it not?

 

The halftrack would be in REME use - there was one in the muesum at Aborfield.

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Some great photos here, Starfire, thanks for posting A pity Aden was not in Tripolitania! :laugh:

You've posted two of them before in one of the threads/links I've listed below.

Photos would be from the latter end of the Aden conflict, possibly around 1966/7, judging by the 'guest appearance' of the Chieftain Mk2 and, some late marque Centurions and, application of DBG camouflage. It does not follow that because we're in an Aden thread, that the tank photos, or indeed, maybe the others, were taken in Aden as armoured regiments serving in Aden only seemed to of had perhaps one or two sabre squadrons actually in Aden, the others being 'somewhere' in the Gulf, Sharjah etc., and were rotated through. My best guess, as we've not got any information to accompany these photos, is that the Chieftains never went to Aden! The tank photos could even be early 70's, in the Gulf. The regiment with those tanks? Probably C Sqn, 1 or 5 RTR though I've not checked. Not 4RTR as they had Saladin, Saracen and Ferret in those parts around the Aden conflict period.

The Halftrack type shown (converted International M5/M9) is the subject of a 'not filled enough' thread here on the forum, see link below. A great photo. Just look at them multi-hued jerrycans and, all those water chilling devices on the side rack! REME Halftracks, with or without jibs (for engine pack/gearbox removal and general 'lifting' purposes are great vehicles and worthy of specialist attention .... no, not me, I have to do my Tripolitania book stuff, though it's worth noting that I cannot find evidence of such a fine type of Halftrack being used in Tripolitania at any time. 5RTR used them in Barce, Cyrenaica 1955-57.

 

Forward Repair Team-LAD REME Halftracks

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?23368-REME-Forward-Repair-Teams

 

Lots of Aden vehicles

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/332703491205988139/

 

4RTR Aden pre-camouflage era-just pure Light Stone

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/115599270779959726365/album/AF1QipN9eYastPAfHA4VR-S__3x0xu2sB6TBJyYnisDY

 

10th Hussars Aden

http://xrhgb.com/xrhaden.html

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Well, the Chieftain tank commander is wearing a red lanyard, and he’s RTR, so that should make him from 1 RTR. The Chieftain itself is carrying the formation sign of 24 Inf Bde which was in Aden from Oct 64 until the withdrawal in Nov 67. The Chieftain also has the squadron marking on the forward edge of the turret of a circle - signifying C Squadron. That it is also highlighted in red, suggests it is 1 RTR. 1 RTR were in Falaise Lines, Aden with A and C Sqns afloat in the Persian Gulf (in LSTs) as theatre reserve from Dec 65 until Feb 67 - the two sqns alternating roles. And the photographer says Aden, 24 Bde says Aden, the camouflage scheme says, probably, Aden. So, it seems rather probable that at least two Chieftains found their way to Aden, perhaps for trials, sometime in the period Dec 65 to Feb 67. Over to others.

10 68

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The guy that took the photos said that it was Alden in '66. I have no reason not to believe him.

 

Cheers,

Terry

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1 RTR were in Falaise Lines, Aden with A and C Sqns afloat in the Persian Gulf (in LSTs) as theatre reserve from Dec 65 until Feb 67 - the two sqns alternating roles. And the photographer says Aden, 24 Bde says Aden, the camouflage scheme says, probably, Aden. So, it seems rather probable that at least two Chieftains found their way to Aden, perhaps for trials, sometime in the period Dec 65 to Feb 67. Over to others.

10 68

 

There were 4 Chieftains with 1RTR if the below is to be believed! The squadrons would not have stayed afloat for months at a time, certainly going ashore with their tanks, practicing beach landings and other tactical training and, Chieftain evaluations. Not much on the web about these tanks other than this below:

 

Below is from:

http://www.1rtr.net/history.html

 

"The Regiment left Hohne for the Middle East in November 1965. B Squadron became the independent squadron in Hong Kong. The rest of the Regiment took over in Little Aden in December 1965, being rejoined by C Squadron in January 1966, from Bahrain. During the 12 month tour the Regiment was engaged in internal security operations in Aden. The Regiment had 4 (yes, it says, 4) Chieftains in Aden on desert trials. They had to carry loads of spare bulbs as the lights kept blowing. Sand induced breakdowns were frequent. *** During the year the Centurions were back loaded and the Regiment gradually undertook light armoured patrols in groups consisting of Ferret Scout Cars; Saracens; Stalwarts; Saladins; 432s and armoured Land Rovers and 3 Tonners. An Air element, equipped with Sioux Helicopters, was included in a newly created Reconnaissance Squadron. In December 1966, the Regiment paraded as the last Armoured Regiment east of Suez, the salute was taken by the Commander in Chief Middle East Command who said, "I'm proud of the Tigers in my Tanks". Meanwhile, in Hong Kong, B Squadron sent detachments to join units in action in Malaysia, as well as being involved in internal security duties".

 

I don't think we know enough from the person who handed the photos over to, was it Starfire (?) to be able to say for sure that these photos were actually taken in Aden and not say, in Bahrain, Sharjah or some other exotic Gulf state. Where's a Chieftain or 1RTR 'expert' when one wants one? (Starfire posted before me, as I was writing, to confirm photos were taken in Aden, thank you)

02EB47, according to Griffin in 'Chieftain', was positioned on SPTA in Mar 2006. He also references 'hot sandy climate' trials with 1RTR in Aden 1966.

Nothing by Dunstan in 'Chieftain MBT 1965-2003' or his 'The Chieftain Tank'.

But, George Forty in his' MCV Chieftain' asserts 'two Chieftains arrived in Aden for trials, 02EB48 and 02EB44'. Those two tanks did some gunnery practice too, live firing. Four paragraphs. So, where was the Chieftain in 'our' photo, 02EB47 and 'the other one'? So inconclusive an account overall for Chieftains in Aden, such a shame. Digging out 'what really were the circumstances' at any time is always more difficult than imagined, sometimes more than needs be. A peek in the RTR journal The Tank for that period would shed more light. Perhaps.

No photos, anywhere, so what Starfire has posted are gems indeed.:)

Edited by BlueBelle
Starfire confirmed photos Aden, before I posted!

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The Halftrack type shown (converted International M5/M9) is the subject of a 'not filled enough' thread here on the forum, see link below. A great photo. Just look at them multi-hued jerrycans and, all those water chilling devices on the side rack! REME Halftracks, with or without jibs (for engine pack/gearbox removal and general 'lifting' purposes are great vehicles and worthy of specialist attention .... no, not me, I have to do my Tripolitania book stuff, though it's worth noting that I cannot find evidence of such a fine type of Halftrack being used in Tripolitania at any time. 5RTR used them in Barce, Cyrenaica 1955-57.

http://xrhgb.com/xrhaden.html

 

Thanks for the information about the half track,

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