Jump to content
Truck257

My first truck MK1 Militant for restoration

Recommended Posts

when i was lulwoth camp i drove a short wheel base flat bed aec miltant on range duty's and it had been modified at 45 command work shop they did two both short wheel base a 6x4 and a 6x6 the 6x4 suffer a major accident head on with a centurion range hull painted bright yellow both did not see each other

 

When about was this ? As mine has been changed to a short wheel base and was in the service till 83' and was painted yellow at one stage also had a new cab which was a later type

Edited by Truck257

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you have the spare wheel carrier - should be mounted behind the passenger side of the cab???

 

No I don't but I do have the spare wheel :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right here is my Vehicle card from the RLC so make of it what you will and give me all the information you've got ? I'd love to find a picture of her in her military life I have scoured the internet for hours any nothing yet so, I understand from what I can see from the card and things that have been changed on the truck since she went into service she was abit of a jet setter a hard worker traveling many miles and suffered many injuries and changes to her form as I've noticed looking round her. A bit or a triggers broom really....

 

any help or advice would be much appreciated thanks guys :)

Screenshot_2017-02-21-18-58-40.jpg

Screenshot_2017-02-21-18-58-47.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy, on the two vehicles with the same chassis number thing, I had brain fade. I assume your vehicle shows registration 26 BR 34 and contract 6/VEH/17911 on the MoS data plate on the chassis rail, and the data card for the other vehicle showed a different registration?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Andy, on the two vehicles with the same chassis number thing, I had brain fade. I assume your vehicle shows registration 26 BR 34 and contract 6/VEH/17911 on the MoS data plate on the chassis rail, and the data card for the other vehicle showed a different registration?

 

That is correct and I didn't get that deep into the details but I presume so the vehicles were different as one was sold out of service in 75' and one stayed on till 83' I think mines the later one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting history!!

Delivered to the MoD on 6 March 1956

Held in storage until issued to 221 Base Vehicle Depot, Singapore in '67- so its widely travelled :)

Transferred to Ordinance Depot, Hong Kong in '68

Transferred to Central Vehicle Depot, Hilton, Derbyshire in '71 so now back in the UK

Transferred to the MT Wing at Bordon in '71

Transferred to the Vehicle Depot at Ashchurch in '78

Next line looks like it went to 41 Command Workshops for repair - can't read that too well

Comes back to Ashchurch Vehicle Depot

Issued to 235 (West Lancashire) Squadron Royal Corps of Transport VR - a TA unit in '76

Moved to 238 Squadron Royal Corps of Transport VR in '77 - during this time the UIN was changed from A3703B to A3705A

Moved to 562 Squadron Royal Corps of Transport VR - a South London based unit - in '80

Returned to the Vehicle Depot, Ashchurch in in '81

Moved to Ruddington for disposal in '83

 

So - your old lady has seen a fair bit of the world in her travels :-)

Edited by ArtistsRifles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neil, when I spoke to Andy the other night, he said there was a REME rebuild plate on the engine with a date which matched the time in 41Wksp. It was this that identified it as the longer serving of the 2 possible registrations. It is a shame that early Militants didn't have the reg stamped on the MoS plate. As for being in store til '68 I'm not sure, both my Militants records start then as though nothing was recorded before then, and I have other evidence that the Timber Tractor had been at 12 Regt RA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A DIS of 1956 yet no activity until 1967 would be inconsistent with my experience where DIS has roughly matched issue date. However, I'm only going by vehicles I've had full paperwork for which is by no means exhaustive and I don't know what the system, if any, was. This also appears to be Class 3 when the card was started, unless I'm reading wrong (which I probably am). Is it possible there is another, full card for this vehicle covering 1956 - 1967 which is missing?

 

I've asked Wally for his input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A DIS of 1956 yet no activity until 1967 would be inconsistent with my experience where DIS has roughly matched issue date. However, I'm only going by vehicles I've had full paperwork for which is by no means exhaustive and I don't know what the system, if any, was. This also appears to be Class 3 when the card was started, unless I'm reading wrong (which I probably am). Is it possible there is another, full card for this vehicle covering 1956 - 1967 which is missing?

 

I've asked Wally for his input.

 

I have noticed on record cards of vehicles that came in to service in the 1950's that the earlier records of units it served with were missing, they were probably disposed of, or maybe because the form of recording had changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This old chestnut lets deal with the facts 1 could there be a earlier 419B card covering the missing years YES well why is there no record in the early 1980s a lot of the cards covering the 1950s were disposed of some 25,000 even when the vehicle was still in service

2 not all vehicles went straight to units but held in reserve as replacements the one we are interested in may have been

have been one of these

3 have l come across vehicles with missing years from there history cards YES quite a few

4 It was normal for a vehicle to be allocated to unit in a matter of months after delivery from the factory and that to be the D.I.S

What we have to remember is that when humans get involved you will always get anomalies in the best laid systems

over the years l have come across a few one vehicle in service carried the following VRNs RGX 978. 75 ZB 93

47 AN 83 and lastly 60 EP 57 there was a card for all three military numbers wrong chassis numbers number plates swopped on the same type of vehicles

This subject would take a whole book on the subject

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do believe that possibly the DIS was 1/56 January 1956 and in bracket it has (8.3.56) 8th March 1956 the only reason I can think for that gap is maybe she was stationed in Singapore from new and she took 3 months to get over there ? I mean at 38 MHP and various boats she would have had to go on dose that sound like a reasonable time to get from her depot to Singapore ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 not all vehicles went straight to units but held in reserve as replacements the one we are interested in may have been

have been one of these

 

Wally, books on the subject, human error and other issues aside, was the 'usual' or 'correct' system for the DIS to be on receipt or on issue to units? Your post implies on issue to units?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So in normal circumstances a 1956 DIS would indicate allocated to a unit in 1956 and therefore the 1956 to 1967 service history missing or incomplete for one of the book full of reasons you outline above?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Missing record cards are a definite possibility - but long periods of time in store before issue to any unit are not uncommon. The record cards for 55 FM 58 show she was received by the MoD in January 1974 ( built in December 1973 according to Gaydon) but not issued until 1978. However, in fairness, the first entry on the record card is delivery to one of the CVD's on the Jan '74 date. Certainly the later MoD plates are more informative then the MoS ones. How things change. :)

 

But what ever - time spent in the Far East makes a nice change from the more usual UK/BAOR/UK service all the life :) Will make a good talking point when displayed at shows!!

 

Just a thought - might be worth asking on the various RCT/ex-Forces group pages on the web if anyone remembers that mil-reg. I found some one who remembered driving mine back in BAOR in the Seventies - and he's been promised a ride/drive once mine is on the road :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

prior to going to Singapore this vehicle seems to have been held at 38 VRD ashchurch [ VRD] VEHICLE RESERVE DEPOT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
long periods of time in store before issue to any unit are not uncommon. The record cards for 55 FM 58 show she was received by the MoD in January 1974 ( built in December 1973 according to Gaydon) but not issued until 1978. However, in fairness, the first entry on the record card is delivery to one of the CVD's on the Jan '74 date. Certainly the later MoD plates are more informative then the MoS ones.

 

Hi Neil, that's why I was trying to understand how the system worked. My experience, which Wally seems to confirm as standard procedure unless I'm misunderstanding him, is that vehicles got a date into service on first issue not on delivery to MoD; so the DIS of 1956 implies it was issued and was somewhere before the 1967 date on the record card.

 

That seems to be confirmed by the Class 3 rating on the card. Again, unless I'm misunderstanding or misreading, it seems to imply the vehicle has already been through Class 1 and 2 (unless Class 3 on the card means something totally different); and it's written in the same hand that's completed the details on the card, implying the Class 3 rating was contemporary.

 

I may be putting two and two together and making five though.

 

What is certain, as you say, is that it's an intriguing detective story and a Singapore and HK history is a lot more interesting than yet another BAOR Militant.

 

 

prior to going to Singapore this vehicle seems to have been held at 38 VRD ashchurch [ VRD] VEHICLE RESERVE DEPOT

 

Wally, are you getting that from '38 - RC' written next to 'issue voucher - reference date'? Might that mean it would always have been at 38 VRD and going from CVD to VRD would be enough to trigger a DIS, or is it likely to have been somewhere in between?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SEAN

There a number of things that lead me to 38 VRD as you may recall one the reasons l gave was not all vehicles went

straight to units When the vehicle went to Singapore/ hong kong there is no record of it been issued to any unit making me think that it was still to be used as a replacement also as such its DIS would be 1956 as it was allocated to a role.

There is mentioned of the engine rebuild plate was this a suggestion to look for one or had one been found if so that information would help if it was replaced between 1956 and 1967 for what reason? if held in reserve. sorry to go on but

with half the picture you only get half the story what Neil says about DISs only confirms what l said . l am sure there are

other members who can confirm this as l found one who's vehicle was delivered in November 1976 but its DIS was 1977 when it went to its first unit

 

REGARDS WALLY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SEAN

There a number of things that lead me to 38 VRD as you may recall one the reasons l gave was not all vehicles went

straight to units When the vehicle went to Singapore/ hong kong there is no record of it been issued to any unit making me think that it was still to be used as a replacement also as such its DIS would be 1956 as it was allocated to a role.

There is mentioned of the engine rebuild plate was this a suggestion to look for one or had one been found if so that information would help if it was replaced between 1956 and 1967 for what reason? if held in reserve. sorry to go on but

with half the picture you only get half the story what Neil says about DISs only confirms what l said.

 

 

These are the 2 images I have one with the compressor date on which I presume is the build date of the vehicle 10/55 October 1955

And the engine overhaul plate onto of the engine 5/77 May 1977

IMAG2532.jpg

IMAG2528.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just putting 2 and 2 together but the engine plate said it was done in 1977 and there is no record of that on the card but ontop of the engine plate it says No of workshop and it says 27 CWs which I presume is 27 command workshop so I've looked them up and they were stationed in Bordon. But the paperwork says it went into MT wing Bordon in 1971. And in 1977 it was at 238 Squadron RCT ? Any ideas ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SEAN

There a number of things that lead me to 38 VRD as you may recall one the reasons l gave was not all vehicles went

straight to units When the vehicle went to Singapore/ hong kong there is no record of it been issued to any unit making me think that it was still to be used as a replacement also as such its DIS would be 1956 as it was allocated to a role.

There is mentioned of the engine rebuild plate was this a suggestion to look for one or had one been found if so that information would help if it was replaced between 1956 and 1967 for what reason? if held in reserve. sorry to go on but

with half the picture you only get half the story what Neil says about DISs only confirms what l said . l am sure there are

other members who can confirm this as l found one who's vehicle was delivered in November 1976 but its DIS was 1977 when it went to its first unit

 

REGARDS WALLY

 

Hello Wally, yes - I think we're maybe talking at cross-purposes and are all in agreement. So to be clear, receipt of vehicle by MoD from manufacturers = no DIS, allocation of vehicle to unit or role = DIS; which could be some time (days to years) after receipt by MoD and / or some time (perhaps years) before arrival at a unit?

 

Sorry, I'd have been clearer if I'd said 'was allocated' rather than 'was somewhere' in responding to Neil.

 

What of the 'Class 3' entry? Am I misunderstanding / misinterpreting?

 

Andy has already commented on the engine plate dates. Presumably the engine might have been fitted due to an in service engine fault and might not appear on the record card if it stayed with unit? Richard?

 

Just to play the devil's advocate, I'm tempted to ask whether the engine build plate actually says anything about the vehicle dates - it shows the engine was rebuilt by 27CW in 1977, but presumably could have been fitted to the truck at any time after that, including after the vehicle left service if it was cast as a crated engine?

 

Andy, sorry, I'm taking over your topic a bit but I'm finding this intriguing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem carry on I'm new to all this anyway and am loving everything you guys are putting up making me get a better understanding for Abbreviations and what actually happened to my truck, and all the military scenarios and actions that were taken. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy has already commented on the engine plate dates. Presumably the engine might have been fitted due to an in service engine fault and might not appear on the record card if it stayed with unit? Richard?

 

Just to play the devil's advocate, I'm tempted to ask whether the engine build plate actually says anything about the vehicle dates - it shows the engine was rebuilt by 27CW in 1977, but presumably could have been fitted to the truck at any time after that, including after the vehicle left service if it was cast as a crated engine?

 

 

Hi Sean,

To address your question on replacement engines ... I changed countless engines on all types of vehicles and plant in my time with Workshops, including Mk1 Militants, I cannot recall which workshop the 11.3 litre AEC was generally rebuilt in, but as you mention 27CW, then that was 27 Command Workshop at Warminster. The procedure at the time was that REME workshops or contractors would bid for engine rebuild programmes. Rebuilt engines were stocked at COD Chilwell, then issued out on demand. The 'reconditionable' old engine would be returned in the crate. When Chilwell had an amount of these they would then be sent out in bulk for reconditioning, then returned to Chilwell for stock and re-issue. As so it went on. When you received a rebuilt crated engine, the build date could have been several years earlier. There was a storage period that if exceeded, they engines had to be inspected and re-preserved, this was mainly due to possibility of rust in the cylinders, think this was 4 years. So with this in mind the rotation of stock would be done by rebuild date. So to sum up, an engine rebuild date is not proof of a vehicle rebuild date ........ unless of course, if an engine was rebuilt at the Workshops along with the vehicle rebuild, although this was not common.

 

Hope all that makes sense!

 

regards, Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...