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Alan

War and peace 2017 ?

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Helicopters?

 

That sounds like a nightmare version of the Beltring of old. I don't remember ever seeing/hearing a favourable comment about the infamous Beltring helicopter.... ;-)

 

 

Current (and ex) MOD ones. They have their own field (adjacent to the show sight) to take off and land in which is closed off for those operations. They had a Chinook, Merlin and Wasp in this year. MOD ground crews on-site to oversee too. I recall the infamous Beltring incident, as one of our groups trucks was parked directly opposite!

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Helicopters?

 

That sounds like a nightmare version of the Beltring of old. I don't remember ever seeing/hearing a favourable comment about the infamous Beltring helicopter.... ;-)

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Regards

Doug

 

Oh it made youtube :

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Capel is a good weekend show think earliest u can camp is a Thursday till Monday

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Good of you to come on here ron.

 

Every other show I go to has excellent toilets and does NOT charge MV's to enter.

 

Take the great dorset steam fair; no charge for MV's, show held on fields with NO permanent facilities, and yet clean toilets everywhere and at least 4 shower blocks. Steam engines need HUGE amounts of water, and yet no problems with water supply.

You can put on the best show on earth, but people will ALWAYS remember the toilets!

I was in the americas field, there was enough toilets, but, toilets without a flap are NOT acceptable.

The toilets would also be better being spaced out more. all the toilets in americas field were together and by the entrance.

Sadly, americas field was a free for all, people camped in the roadways and huge areas roped off and people taking up to much space, sadly, the twickenham off roaders were not asked to run the americas, which I feel caused the problems, it also meant there was no off road corse in operation.

 

What we, as MV owners find hard to accept is that every other show gets it right, and lets us in FREE!

 

TBH, if I could find another show were I could go for a week, I would stop going to W+P, which is sad as I have been going for 25 yrs bar once.

 

He got the toilets and showers spot on at folkstone, imo, how on earth did he muck up at the hop farm?

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As many said there has been always issue with toilets and showers at W&P yes it was vastly improved at the last venue, I hope the show owner is reading these comments so they could improve things for next year. They may wish to talk to other shows management teams on how they deal with these issues, there is a lot of other big shows and smaller ones who tend to get it right, end of the day if it was not for our willingness to bring vehicles and displays they would not have a show.

 

Al

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Al, you said....".... end of the day if it was not for our willingness to bring vehicles and displays they would not have a show." It is my understanding from various reported conversations with the new owner that he is totally at odds with this viewpoint. You and other MV owners are paying public and you can attend or not, take it or leave it. Forget the way it was......and is, with other MV shows. I stress, this is from reported conversations, but it tallies with what I found. If it was "our" show in the past, it aint now! Fair enough.......we did not put up the money.

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If that scenario is correct, then the old saying "arrogance cometh before a fall" springs to mind.

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If that scenario is correct, then the old saying "arrogance cometh before a fall" springs to mind.

 

I think the proverb is "Pride goes before a fall"?

 

I don't know why someone with a spare 250 grand or so doesn't put on their own show for their mates??

 

Ron

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The up front cost of putting on a show the size of War and Peace must eye watering. Cost of renting the site from the Hop Farm, Security, Fences, Insurances, Council and H&S permits and reports, Putting the site back to as was condition and clearing away the rubbish, Plus any other organisations with their hand out for cash. As the new owner has put his cash on the line it is right that he should get it back. As a businessman Vehicle Owners can not expect him to make a loss so we can have a show. However if Vehicle owners want to put on a show the size of War and Peace are they happy to spend their cash in large lumps before getting any back from exhibitors and the public? Putting on an Public event, Air Show, Vehicle Show etc is a risk that any businessmen have to weigh up. No one goes into a venture like this to make a loss...if they can help it. I think as vehicle owners we should applaud the new owner for taking over from Rex and taking a financial risk. How many other vehicle owners would have a go on this scale.

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I think the proverb is "Pride goes before a fall"?

 

I don't know why someone with a spare 250 grand or so doesn't put on their own show for their mates??

 

Ron

 

I was paraphrasing, but you are correct.

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You've absolutely hit the nail on the head there 'Armyphotos' and the £250,000 that I mentioned earlier doesn't even begin to pay for it. I gather it's best part of 400 acres at the Hop Farm which all has to be re-instated with machines, top soil and seed, ready for whatever is the next event, this alone would probably bankrupt most of us. Ron

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The up front cost of putting on a show the size of War and Peace must eye watering. Cost of renting the site from the Hop Farm, Security, Fences, Insurances, Council and H&S permits and reports, Putting the site back to as was condition and clearing away the rubbish, Plus any other organisations with their hand out for cash. As the new owner has put his cash on the line it is right that he should get it back. As a businessman Vehicle Owners can not expect him to make a loss so we can have a show. However if Vehicle owners want to put on a show the size of War and Peace are they happy to spend their cash in large lumps before getting any back from exhibitors and the public? Putting on an Public event, Air Show, Vehicle Show etc is a risk that any businessmen have to weigh up. No one goes into a venture like this to make a loss...if they can help it. I think as vehicle owners we should applaud the new owner for taking over from Rex and taking a financial risk. How many other vehicle owners would have a go on this scale.

 

With regards to the taking over of the show, I was always led to believe that old Rex made a healthy profit from which he gave a great deal to charity. I have complained about the toilets and know that you can never please everyone but if they were spaced out a bit more that would have helped. As for them not having the flaps, I don't think anyone can say that they were happy at looking at someone else's crap.

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I am sure that the new owner of show has lots of costs , and of course he has done his sums and reckons he can still make a profit on the show ,which is great , however the whole toilet situation was crap!! I guess there will be one simple test and that's next year if bogs are exactly the same as this year , we all know for sure he does not give a flying ****!

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Has anyone received a positive response from the chap running W&P following polite, constructive feedback on what doesn't suit and what improvements might attract them back or encourage even more to attend?

 

I'm wondering if he has any intention of engaging with the MV movement with the aim of making his ideas for improvements available so that we might know what to expect for the next show?

 

If he can offer some indication that he will work on these issues then who knows - numbers of participants, traders and public may improve next year, to everyones' benefit :thumbsup:

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I spoke at length to John today who is still quaking and trying to wind down after the show. He's still too busy so far to read any of the comments on here what with cleaning up and repairing the site.

 

He is concerned about the issue of first comers roping of larger areas than they need and will have to find a way to police that.

 

However he's adamant that he provided well over the legal requirements of toilets and hired a local firm to supply them and empty and clean them on a daily basis. He's dumbfounded that a certain few should think that he instigated or was even aware that there would be no 'flap'!! To that end there is always the permanent toilet block with proper porcelain pans. However he's quite prepared to increase the portaloos by a substantial amount for next year. But is quite convinced that the complaints about toilets will persist like they have done since the show was first conceived.

 

My advice is " Take your own F*cking loo" like I do when I go to Normandy and any other rally. The £10 that some are whinging about will just about buy four coffees in most establishments.

 

Ron

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Overall, it seems those portacabin/trailer-type facilities as used at the Racecourse are better suited than those individual toilets, as they at least could flush and are probably easier and quicker to clean?

 

There has to be a reason there are (and always have been) so many complaints about the facilities at the Hop Farm, while most will agree that at the Racecourse they were as good as you could get them, even if you disliked the site itself. What was the difference in type, numbers, concentration, attendants etc.?

Edited by earlymb

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Well ten pounds definitely didn't buy improvements on previous years toilet blocks that is obvious . Shame as its my only complaint . Could I suggest a few of the Gents urinal only type loos that Great Dorset Steam Fair has would be a good idea dotted around the fields ! Could I also comment that some of the people who use the toilets also need to learn how to use em ! So they are still useable by the next person in need of them ! As I say the toilets where my only disappointment ! Can't imagine how the ladies amongst us get on !

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John confirmed to me today that the quantity of toilets at Folkstone last year was actually fewer than this year at the Hop Farm. (He has the bills to prove it). So maybe it was the type of toilet or their locations that have instigated complaints??? And like John, I have a strong feeling that the complaints will continue whatever happens. Has anyone ever been to the Goodwood Revival that costs you over 50 quid for a day's entry, and not much chance of getting an arm band that gets you into the 'posh loos' unless you are one of the chosen rich!! I exhibited there for 8 years in a row and saw long long queues at the permanent toilet blocks. Ron

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I spoke at length to John today who is still quaking and trying to wind down after the show. He's still too busy so far to read any of the comments on here what with cleaning up and repairing the site.

 

He is concerned about the issue of first comers roping of larger areas than they need and will have to find a way to police that.

 

However he's adamant that he provided well over the legal requirements of toilets and hired a local firm to supply them and empty and clean them on a daily basis. He's dumbfounded that a certain few should think that he instigated or was even aware that there would be no 'flap'!! To that end there is always the permanent toilet block with proper porcelain pans. However he's quite prepared to increase the portaloos by a substantial amount for next year. But is quite convinced that the complaints about toilets will persist like they have done since the show was first conceived.

 

My advice is " Take your own F*cking loo" like I do when I go to Normandy and any other rally. The £10 that some are whinging about will just about buy four coffees in most establishments.

 

Ron

 

You was doing really well until the last paragraph.

Why should we take our own loo's when we are charged an extra £10 for toilets and showers?

 

I would say that there was nearly enough toilets, it's the type that everybody was p*ssed off with.

Sadly, it does sound like the new owner really does not care, which I cannot understand.

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Where am I going to strap my f*cking portaloo then, Ron ? I don't want the bike to end up looking like a Honda !

 

P8250555 (2).jpg

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Well ten pounds definitely didn't buy improvements on previous years toilet blocks that is obvious . Shame as its my only complaint . Could I suggest a few of the Gents urinal only type loos that Great Dorset Steam Fair has would be a good idea dotted around the fields ! Could I also comment that some of the people who use the toilets also need to learn how to use em ! So they are still useable by the next person in need of them ! As I say the toilets where my only disappointment ! Can't imagine how the ladies amongst us get on !

 

Here Here, well said. As for taking your own F**cking toilet, if I had know what sort of state they were going to get in I most properly would have. As said above, the ladies must have cringed at the thought of using them. Our crew in the end used a jerry can for pissing in as it was to far to walk, if you had the weakest of bladders. We were at the end of 'outer monktons' and the loo's were at the cross roads. could have split them and had a few at the end near the corners. Only needed a bit of common sense. Rant over as this will keep going on forever.

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Thoughts (personal only) inserted in red

 

I spoke at length to John today who is still quaking and trying to wind down after the show. He's still too busy so far to read any of the comments on here what with cleaning up and repairing the site.

 

He is concerned about the issue of first comers roping of larger areas than they need and will have to find a way to police that. Go back to the old W&P scheme of having marshals for the various fields. It seems this year the America's was the worst one - get the Twickenham Offroaders back and involved - instant solution. Also move the plastic /public camping zone into the out-lying Medway field with a security officer on access patrol to keep the pikeys out.

 

However he's adamant that he provided well over the legal requirements of toilets and hired a local firm to supply them and empty and clean them on a daily basis. He's dumbfounded that a certain few should think that he instigated or was even aware that there would be no 'flap'!! To that end there is always the permanent toilet block with proper porcelain pans. However he's quite prepared to increase the portaloos by a substantial amount for next year. But is quite convinced that the complaints about toilets will persist like they have done since the show was first conceived. Probably spot on about the complaints persisting - seems to be a W&P "thing". The permanent blocks (there are two there) had queues all day. Unfortunately for him he IS the organizer and thus the focal point. Was I him - I would have a member of staff deputised to ensure that complaints and comparisons to the race course organization about showers and loos were noted on and acted on for next year. If nothing else he can then stand back and say "talk to him/her" :)

Oh yeah - and don't site a food van by a block of loo's - poor vendor at the main entrance kept losing crowds of customers when the septic truck arrived to pump them out. :)

My advice is " Take your own F*cking loo" like I do when I go to Normandy and any other rally. The £10 that some are whinging about will just about buy four coffees in most establishments. Umm - about 2.5 at the show this year I thought I saw the coffee stalls priced at £3.50? :)

On that note- at the race course the food vans in the Living History area were a bit cheaper than on the rest of the site - between 50p and £1. I do not know if that was an arranged deal with the vendor or we were just lucky in getting a cheaper vendor in LH? But it was certainly appreciated by those in the LH area.

 

Lastly - asking around the last few days - I get the feeling if he wants to attract the missing armour back he will need to repair/build bridges with owners who got more than a little pee'd at the description of them as basically scroungers and free-loaders for taking their families in for free in his first interview after buying the show. That, of course, is his choice

 

Ron

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Where am I going to strap my f*cking portaloo then, Ron ? I don't want the bike to end up looking like a Honda !

 

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Don't you start Rik! I can't remember seeing you there? As for the type of toilets on site! At the risk of repeating myself, do you think the organisers purposely ordered loos without the sodding flap. THEY JUST HIRED A FIRM TO SUPPLY AND CLEAN THEM!!!

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No Ron, I wasn't there and the stories about the kharzis are one of the things that put me off...It's too far for me to consider doing it for a day....and quite frankly these days if I can't have a dump without holding my nose and somewhere clean to have a wash and shave, I simply shan't bother.

 

If I'm going to hire or buy anything then I'd expect to look at it first.

 

You're sounding almost as defensive as John in these latest posts. I'm not sure that he realises just how off-putting the prickliness is. Every communication that I've seen relating to anything from ticketing to facilities has been 'take it or leave it' and quite frankly my inclination is to leave it....but what-ho, I'm just one paying mug. I won't be missed.

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