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Alan

War and peace 2017 ?

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Went down to the hop farm for a couple of days great to catch up with fsc guys , the show felt like it was back in its correct location certainly far better than Folkestone,lay out was good and a varied selection of Mvs if u went round whole site showers and toilets were to usual standards ! (. Get some porta loos with flaps !):shocking:

Yes agree totally with regards to the lavs, every morning for 7 days the last thing you want to see after a night on the lash is a great big turd staring back at you. 💩 We will most likely hire one in next year just to be on the safe side.

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Why all the fuss? It is so easy to take our own.

 

This one lasted for the whole week for one person using it, without needing emptying.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THETFORD-PORTA-POTTI-365-QUBE-WHITE-PORTABLE-CHEMICAL-CAMPING-TOILET-FAST-DEL-5/131322659362?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Always available day or night without traipsing around to only be inhibited by what you find. Do buy a decent make like Thetford, cheaper ones soon split or fail to flush effectively. Choose a pump flush as that is much more effective than a bellows flush.

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Why all the fuss? It is so easy to take our own.

 

This one lasted for the whole week for one person using it, without needing emptying.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THETFORD-PORTA-POTTI-365-QUBE-WHITE-PORTABLE-CHEMICAL-CAMPING-TOILET-FAST-DEL-5/131322659362?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Always available day or night without traipsing around to only be inhibited by what you find. Do buy a decent make like Thetford, cheaper ones soon split or fail to flush effectively. Choose a pump flush as that is much more effective than a bellows flush.

 

We pay 10 gbpextra for the loos so I shouldn't have to buy one.

And my tiny little car is full enough as it is without adding a toilet, I'd rather have a small fridge but its still a tiny car so...

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Fuss about loos cheeky b****r ! They are charging extra for loos ,at a show we already have to pay to get into ! Organisers can pay a bit more for hire and get some bogs with a flap over the pile of dung!

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The toilets were unacceptable - no one should be faced with the sights that greeted you in the portables. My gripe was that arriving at 21:00 on the Wednesday after a 250 mile trip I met one of the biggest jobsworths on the site. First words "were no wristband no entry" I had a printed ticket with the truck registration on it - personal id if needed but that didn't mean anything to her. She seemed to be enjoying it and was quite proud of the fact that she had already turned away a family who had travelled from Norway.

Surely there has to be some acknowledgement that people travel long distances to get there and that they cannot always plan their arrival times to suit. Keep the ticket and have a quarantine area to stop in if they are paranoid about freeloaders but why not keep the check in open for longer?

 

It wasn't the best start to what was otherwise an enjoyable show

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Well I had a great week the normal problems with the pitch which was sorted out for us thanks to the Scottish MVT for letting us have a part of your pitch, toilets well what can we say normal problems a great job the gurkers did with what they had the shower pods great. The arena was challenging in the wet but great to test your driving skills, the trade stands didn't seem the normal numbers but I personal found a bit expensive the catering stalls prices went up during the week, the victory bar and carvery was great. Overall it was a great week will be back next year YES

 

 

Al

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Bigduke: And you had the 'Bonus' of meeting up with Me as well! ;) Lol

 

FF good to meet up, if only for a quick chat, after I picked up the .38 holster, headed over to the vehicles.......... going back to work full time in November, so will have to juggle time off for events like this and the ADE......

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Why all the fuss? It is so easy to take our own.

 

This one lasted for the whole week for one person using it, without needing emptying.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THETFORD-PORTA-POTTI-365-QUBE-WHITE-PORTABLE-CHEMICAL-CAMPING-TOILET-FAST-DEL-5/131322659362?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Always available day or night without traipsing around to only be inhibited by what you find. Do buy a decent make like Thetford, cheaper ones soon split or fail to flush effectively. Choose a pump flush as that is much more effective than a bellows flush.

But why should we have to pay extra on top of what has already been paid for this service. Its just total greed on the part of the organizer, Loo's and shower's are a basic need and these should have been placed in a lot more areas for ease of access.

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But why should we have to pay extra on top of what has already been paid for this service. Its just total greed on the part of the organizer, Loo's and shower's are a basic need and these should have been placed in a lot more areas for ease of access.

 

I've been reading all the comments with interest. The good and the bad and all are valid. However the 'GREED' thing has got my back up. I hope I'm forgiven if I speak out of turn, but I happen to know that the new organiser made a loss at last years Folkstone (and I don't mean 50 quid) and was predicting to make 'hopefully' less of a loss this year, with a break even prediction for years 3 and 4 and into profit by year 5.........I don't think the previous organisers gave it up because they were making too much money!!!

 

There are bound to be problems and inaccuracies and hopefully most will get sorted out over time, but you will never please everyone ever, let alone from day one. After all they only have the blueprint of the previous organisation to work from, which also always had it's critics.

 

I don't have any vested interest in the show other than a friend of the organiser and a one day visitor (paid my £20 on Wednesday) and really pleased that it's back at the Hop Farm.

 

Ron

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I met up with quite a few folk over the weekend who had attended W&P. Probably overall favourable feelings mainly due to a return to the old venue with a scattering of people who said they are not going to bother again. But pretty much everyone agreed the toilets and shower situation was unacceptable and rankled a LOT due to the imposed surcharge. Indeed quite a few said they left early due to this......to get back home and get cleaned up. And especially for families, this was not pleasant......I would not have stayed there with school age children. If you are staying even 5 days, the facilities need to be decent.

Edited by matchlesswdg3

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Yes Ferg I agree that the toilets are a valid criticism along with a couple of other issues. I just spoke briefly to John this morning who is just back from the Hop Farm after break down. He's understandably knackered but I have offered to enter any discussion as an impartial bystander about some of the issues razed. I don't suppose he's had time to read through any of this and I wouldn't blame him for not reading it at all! Ron

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I enjoyed the week at the Hop Farm this year despite the weather, it was good to be back a little closer to home.

I particularly liked the Gentlemans lounge and I thought the showers were very good especially the portable ones.

Only criticism as others was lack of toilets.

 

The Humber drove there and back faultlessly so that's always a bonus.

 

Jules

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I've been reading all the comments with interest. The good and the bad and all are valid. However the 'GREED' thing has got my back up. I hope I'm forgiven if I speak out of turn, but I happen to know that the new organiser made a loss at last years Folkstone (and I don't mean 50 quid) and was predicting to make 'hopefully' less of a loss this year, with a break even prediction for years 3 and 4 and into profit by year 5.........I don't think the previous organisers gave it up because they were making too much money!!!

 

There are bound to be problems and inaccuracies and hopefully most will get sorted out over time, but you will never please everyone ever, let alone from day one. After all they only have the blueprint of the previous organisation to work from, which also always had it's critics.

 

I don't have any vested interest in the show other than a friend of the organiser and a one day visitor (paid my £20 on Wednesday) and really pleased that it's back at the Hop Farm.

 

Ron

OK Ron perhaps the word 'greed' is a little out of order but surely a few more toilets down at the end of 'Outer Monktons' would not have cost a lot more. There were only about 10 to cover the whole of that area, not even the drone on the 2017 video even ventured down to that neck of the woods. Just felt like we were all forgotten down that end of the show, even the public hardly turned up to view what was going on.

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Yes I can't disagree that the toilet issue is a valid one. However I gather that whatever authority that monitors such things decided that there should be a given number of toilets for the show and the number on site far exceeded their requirements. I've no idea of their means of calculation? Maybe someone got the sums wrong? I won't mention any of the figures without John's express permission but it's obvious that it's not just the hiring of the portaloos, it's also the daily emptying and cleaning which is extremely expensive. The more loos and the further they are spread around the more the cost rockets. I can see that everyone would like a nice clean toilet close to where they are camped, but in reality on such a vast show it's just not financially possible. Even some of the nice purpose built campsites that I've been to can leave you with quite a hike to the toilet block, depending where you're pitched.

 

I'm sure there is room for compromise and a happy medium. I'll be seeing John very soon when he's started to recover from this years show, and I'm not afraid to tell him what I think or just make suggestions, I've been in business most of my working life and therefore can see it from both sides and if he tells me to bugger off...... I won't fix his bikes anymore.!!! Ron

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Yes I can't disagree that the toilet issue is a valid one. However I gather that whatever authority that monitors such things decided that there should be a given number of toilets for the show and the number on site far exceeded their requirements. I've no idea of their means of calculation? Maybe someone got the sums wrong? I won't mention any of the figures without John's express permission but it's obvious that it's not just the hiring of the portaloos, it's also the daily emptying and cleaning which is extremely expensive. The more loos and the further they are spread around the more the cost rockets. I can see that everyone would like a nice clean toilet close to where they are camped, but in reality on such a vast show it's just not financially possible. Even some of the nice purpose built campsites that I've been to can leave you with quite a hike to the toilet block, depending where you're pitched.

 

I'm sure there is room for compromise and a happy medium. I'll be seeing John very soon when he's started to recover from this years show, and I'm not afraid to tell him what I think or just make suggestions, I've been in business most of my working life and therefore can see it from both sides and if he tells me to bugger off...... I won't fix his bikes anymore.!!! Ron

Good on ya Ron, rant aside we did end up having a good time. Weather is always out of our hands but it's what you make it. We did end up having our own porta loo's, those US jerry cans with there wide filling holes had there uses. :-D

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It is very good of you to offer to act as an intermediary, Ron.

 

Some points to consider:

 

1. For most I would imagine there is no happy medium - it is either acceptable or unacceptable. A really basic unit, if clean and stocked with paper, is acceptable - a filthy overflowing luxury unit even with a built-in TV is unacceptable.

 

2. The volume carted off site will be the same, whether it is from a small number of units frequently emptied or a large number emptied occasionally.

 

3. I for one would prefer to walk further, through mud if necessary, to use a clean facility.

 

4. Fewer units increases risk of queuing.

 

5. Not spending enough to get it right risks alienating the stars of the show.

 

6. I currently have no confidence it will be sorted by the next show.

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Points noted. However I didn't mean "Happy Medium" in relation to their cleanliness. One would hope that the firm responsible would do the job that they're hired for. It was to do with the amount of loos and their locations. The ultimate of course would be a loo for every group, which of course is not possible, in that respect there would hopefully be a happy medium. I'm only guessing but I assume that an increase in numbers would still require that they are all still cleaned daily, otherwise someone would have to inspect them all the time and put a cross on the door.

 

Point number 6........Knock it off with those negative waves man!!

 

Ron

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?........

 

Point number 6........Knock it off with those negative waves man!!

 

Ron

 

:-D

 

Only the organiser can do something about that.

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I think most people wouldn't mind walking a bit further if they know the facilities will be clean and stocked.

 

I think there is a compromise possible here; if each field only has a single central block with toilets (maybe 2 for the largest fields) but there are enough on that spot and they are kept clean it may also mean only 1-2 full-time attendants per block are enough, instead of the 4 you would need to cover the same field if the facilities are spread over several smaller blocks? Concentration would also mean it's easier and quicker to have them emptied etc. That could save a lot of expensive manhours while keeping the facilities acceptable.

 

I think this is more or less what happened on the Racecourse?

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The only time those bogs without flap are acceptable is if you are the first one in there after emptying and cleaning ,after that they ain't acceptable in this day and age , also get some dedicated urinal blocks , see them at other shows we do .

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Due to living on the other side of the world, I have only made it to Beltring twice, 1999 and 2000. But reading the various threads about 2017, it would appear that the same problems remain or have returned, I really can't spot any new issues.

The general theme seems to be that the show is a victim of its own success.

The biggest shows draw the biggest crowds and creates the biggest problems.

I do suspect that the "trying to appeal to all" approach is self defeating. I for one would not want to even contemplate herding cats let alone organising Beltring.

Given that it is Camping/Jeeps through to Heavy Armour/Mil Re-enactors/Civvy Re-enactors/Stalls/Entertainment/General Public, the old saw "jack of all trades master of none" does spring to mind.

 

What does puzzle me is that it would appear the new owner has not headed the toilet lessons from years past. However, given Ian's posts about the issue with making a profit (or not as the case may be), he may have decided to minimise toilet costs in favour of perhaps entertainment - if so, big mistake.

A glance back over the years does not throw up too many "we were bored we want more entertainment" whinges.

 

Both times I attended, the group I was with (MV owners/enthusiasts) mainly did not bother with the entertainment, we were too busy socialising and I must say, only too happy to sit down for a rest and some escape from the crowds after a hard day on the go.

 

My impression is that if the toilet issue was sorted, attendees would entertain themselves. Given the choice, in all likely hood, most

attendees would give up quite a few other benefits in order not to have a medieval level of sanitation. Just be thankful you don't get Aussie heat. Port-a-loos, no matter how well serviced, believe me, are no fun when you have air temperatures of 40 deg C (or higher).

 

As to the general trend for everyone to pack up and head off on the Saturday, the same thing happens with our MV meet at Corowa. In Oz, our long distances mean that many attendees have hundreds if not thousands of kilometres of travel to get home. For most that means head off immediately after the swap meet (effectively grab an early lunch on the way out of town) and unless they live in Sydney or Melbourne look to arrive home Sunday arvo - then back to work Monday.

The organisers of both events can fight early departure as much as they want, but the reality is that people have to work to support their hobby, get kids back to school etc.

 

I will say, having been to the Oshkosh airshow in the USA many years ago, with attendees back then of X00,000, (now >500,000) temperatures in the 35 to 40 degree Celcius range, copious supplies of ice cold drinks and efficient entry control - I have no recollection of any toilet issues.

So it can be done.

Edited by dgrev
duplicate word

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I think the bug bear is that fact that people are now openly charged for the toilets even though they are a legal requirement as you need x amount per people on site/footfall(be it a building site with 2 labourers or Glastonbury!) Its always been a bone of contention for as long as I can remember so we always ordered our own! When it needed emptying we called and they came. Should I have to get our own in? I think not but do I want to look at someone's **** not really:mad:

We as a group never went this year after a fall out with the owner last year(I wont go into it on here but a few of us weren't happy at a couple incidents), did I miss it yes and no funnily enough I like it when the weather is a tadge grim as I think the vehicles look better for a smattering of mud on them still undecided if we will go next year! We'll probably do a week at Capel instead as it seemed much more like the old war and peace.

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Helicopters?

 

That sounds like a nightmare version of the Beltring of old. I don't remember ever seeing/hearing a favourable comment about the infamous Beltring helicopter.... ;-)

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Regards

Doug

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