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MoD Document Regarding 75 PLCE, Mk2 P58, etc. Webbing

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Interesting read for those who were around in those days and now can have the full picture.

 

I have never seen the larger 58 pattern large pack, does anyone have one to show us beside the regular sized one?

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Interesting read for those who were around in those days and now can have the full picture.

 

I have never seen the larger 58 pattern large pack, does anyone have one to show us beside the regular sized one?

 

In which paragraph is that mentioned?

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Interesting read for those who were around in those days and now can have the full picture.

 

I have never seen the larger 58 pattern large pack, does anyone have one to show us beside the regular sized one?

 

Isn't that the GS rucksack? See para. 22. This one's mine, faintly dated 1979.

 

IMG_4201.jpg

IMG_4200.jpg

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In case it is of interest to anyone, here's the date marking inside the GS rucksack flap. As they so often are, it is infuriatingly faint but in good light you can just about make out the last line as CQC 1979.

 

IMG_4190.jpg

IMG_4189.jpg

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Came across this and thought it might be of interest:

 

The Demise of the 1975 Pattern Design & Route to the '90 Pattern

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/455093/20150820-FOI06779_Demise_of_1975_Pattern_Design.pdf

 

True story - this came public as a result of my FOI request a few years back now. There are a couple of others out there too :-)

Edited by Exwoofer
Typo correction

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In case it is of interest to anyone, here's the date marking inside the GS rucksack flap. As they so often are, it is infuriatingly faint but in good light you can just about make out the last line as CQC 1979.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=122719&stc=1attachment.php?attachmentid=122720&stc=1

 

I admit it is feint - but that does look like a 1979 date! Amazing if correct. As the 'Demise' document suggests - the GS Bergan was adopted (on a very limited scale - most frequently seen in use in NI) in the mid 70s but most examples seen of this date have design differences to the later (1983/84) issued version. Yours though looks like the later type but has the early date - amazing. I have another version which is made from a material close to the MK2 58 nylon webbing material and it too has the later design features. Unfortunately mine has no date but thanks to your pack it can be suggested that this was possibly a late 70s design - likely to be used in conjunction with MK2 58 webbing - as the 'Demise' document suggests was planned.

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I admit it is feint - but that does look like a 1979 date! Amazing if correct. As the 'Demise' document suggests - the GS Bergan was adopted (on a very limited scale - most frequently seen in use in NI) in the mid 70s but most examples seen of this date have design differences to the later (1983/84) issued version. Yours though looks like the later type but has the early date - amazing. I have another version which is made from a material close to the MK2 58 nylon webbing material and it too has the later design features. Unfortunately mine has no date but thanks to your pack it can be suggested that this was possibly a late 70s design - likely to be used in conjunction with MK2 58 webbing - as the 'Demise' document suggests was planned.

 

There was an earlier one on ebay a few months back, not dated but with a clear A/78 contract number which put it with a fair degree of certainty to 1978. It didn't make much money but these are still (for the moment) unappreciated, the poor relation of the SAS rucksack despite early examples being considerably rarer.

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41 Commando had these in NI circa 1977/78 mixed in with some of the original trials bergens from 1975. Only NI issue at that time I was told. It would appear several small batches were made around that time.

I have a photo of a Marine from that unit using one. At the time they were well thought of as patrol packs, though obviously they were heavy and when better options became available they fell out of favour.

 

Here's a photo showing a Falklands Task Force RE Sapper boarding QE2 in 1982, with a heavily laden GS Bergen. Note the later buckles on the side pockets.

GS  Bergen.jpg

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Forgive my ignorance but which system is the '75 pattern? I'm aware of what many call '72 pattern but not '75 pattern, could anyone give me a description or share a photo? It's possible I know it but by a different, incorrect name!

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On 1/30/2018 at 3:48 PM, SimonLMoore said:

Forgive my ignorance but which system is the '75 pattern? I'm aware of what many call '72 pattern but not '75 pattern, could anyone give me a description or share a photo? It's possible I know it but by a different, incorrect name!

Aren't they the same thing? I was under the impression that '1972 Pattern' is a collectorism for the early 70's butyl trials webbing which was referred to as '1975 PLCE' in contemporary documents. It would be interesting to see a copy of the original guide / handbook / descriptive document produced when it was trialled. Ditto Mk2 P58.

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I've been reading back through the forum and that does seem to be the case, thanks for that. Likewise would be very interested to see the manual for each set of equipment.

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I have a feeling because it was trials equipment and not for General issue there probably never was a manual for the webbing as it would have been set up and demonstrated by the designers prior to issue, and the rucksacks are pretty simple to use.

it's strange really I have a US issue Manual for the use of the large ALICE rucksack, which goes into great detail about how to attatch things, how to open and close it, how to clean and replace bits, how to sew up holes, plus all the extras like waterproof covers and stuffsacks.

It's pretty similar in shape and size, it's made from different materials the features, are not as complex but similar. To be honest once the straps are in the right place, you don't need to do much unless it falls apart, in which case you tape it up or get a new one from stores , and that's what squaddies do!

 

 

 

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