Panzer 2 turret

[MatchFuzee]

11 hours ago, simon king said:

Sorry....cant link so google “Tiger1.info MG34 toolboxes”

http://tiger1.info/EN/MG-toolboxes.html

[John F]

16 hours ago, 43rdrecce said:

There was an E and V- Kasten too. 

Yes, the "Ergänzungskasten" and the "Vorratskasten."

[johann morris]

Evening and thanks for the information, I realise now that I should have been a bit more specific in my comments. You are correct there are several different Zubehorkasten but there is one that is specific to the    Panzer ll, the nearest that I can find is the One from the Tiger tank pictured below but the dimensions are wrong.

        

In this box the gun butt is stored on top of the bipod, thus the box is approximately 150mm wide, (because that is the dimension across the horns of the butt) by 380mm(the length of the bipod) by 80, the length of the removeable sight. The box that I seek has approximate dimensions of 440mm x 250mm x 60mm so the storage arrangements inside the box, must be different. 

I have the same problem with the MG Werkzeugtasche  and the 2cm kwk Zubehorkasten that are stored inside the tank.

The standard German armoured fighting vehicle had a steel MG Werkzeug

  

But the early Panzers appear to have had a leather MG Werkzeugtasche as pictured above and in this Panzer 3

Now it has been suggested that these pictures are only storage pictures and the actual vehicle had either a steel box or the standard MG34 gunners pouch

In fact if you study the pictures of the inside of the tank museums Panzer ll you can see the fixing points for the

said pouch and the spacings are too far apart for either the standard gunners pouch or the steel box.

 

Then there's the 2cmKwk Zubehorkasten, I have searched  and I cannot find any information that relates to this particular box, I can find 2cm Zubehorkasten boxes but not that would fit and looking at the pictures of the angled brackets and what look like wood screws, I would think that this box could be made of wood.

 

I could be wrong and if anyone has more information then I would be happy to receive it, the next step is to get down to Bovington and see what is in the archive but when?

 

Jon

[johann morris]

Evening All,

Update time again.

I am still working my way around the track guards making all the various parts, boxes etc.

On the right hand track guard, at the rear, there is a box described as a Werkzeugkasten III or toolbox, what exactly goes in it I have no idea. The box on top of the Wrkzeugkasten on the Tank museums Panzer II is an addition and isn't relevant to the Ausf C.

Obviously mine.

 

On the last update I mentioned the MG Zubehorkasten which caused some confusion. This is my recreation, which I think is somewhere near but how the items that it held were arranged, is still a mystery.

 

 

The last item this evening, is what is described as Zwischenrohr zur Andrehkurbel or Intermediate tube to the crank handle. What the Intermediate tube to the crank handle actually looks like, I have no idea.

An original on the tank museums PZII

and mine.

 

The catch used to close this tube and several other boxes caused me some head scratching. You can buy them from the good old USA at around $20 each, which to my mind is too expensive, especially as I need around 15 of them. They are not perfect but good enough.

Or I could make them from scratch myself but I am too lazy. Then I came across these on that evil auction site.

The dimensions are very similar to the original but of course they look totally different. With a little bit of imagination, some alteration and a new latch arm, I think that they look quite passable and all for £1.19 each.

                          

That's all folks.

 

Jon

 

[Funksammler]

You can can probably get the locks a lot cheaper directly from  Germany: https://www.otlinghaus-iserlohn.de/95/starre-verschluesse-genormt. Or get some orignal ground dug ones: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Lot-Riegel-Kasten-Torn-Nachrichten-Einheits-PKW-Lkw-WW2/224103594172?hash=item342d9d78bc:g:hWAAAOSwJWtfJyFW

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Funksammler

[Highland_laddie]

Found this online here:   https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forum/wehrmacht-uniforms-and-equipment/achtung-panzer-forum/948167-fresh-find-five-panzer-werkzeugkasten-mit-inhalt-identify-please#post7183007

Now it's possible that the term applies to No. 3 tool box and that the toolbox is different for each model of vehicle but thought it might help.

[Citroman]

Wrench nr 20 was also in several 60s and 70s Mercedes toolkits.

[johann morris]

Evening all,

Not much to report on the Panzer front, as I have been busy with other non military projects that I appear to have gained.

As for the Panzer i have been removing the parts that i have previously made and under coating them ready for a top coat as and when.

A quite interesting little project that i have finished is the rotary coupling that connects power and audio from the hull up into the turret.

I had thought of using a cheap slip ring as sold on ebay and modifying it to suit but i don't think that it will be man enough, so i decided to knock something up myself. 

The rotary junction is bolted to the hull floor and attaches to the leg of the commanders seat, the cables then run inside of the seat support leg and into the turret.

  

 

I thought that i had taken loads more pictures but it appears that i didn't. This is the rotor and the copper ring connectors, sorry if my descriptive terms are incorrect but i can't think what the individual components would be called.

The copper is 35mm plumbing tube pressed over nylon insulators with the relevant wires soldered in.

All the external connectors  that i have used are clansman but i couldn't find a female socket, so i used a bulkhead fitting and turned up a two part housing that pushes together and sealed it all by covering it with heat shrink.

  

The outer housing has a bearing top and bottom and an oil seal at the top to stop dirt getting in but i forgot to take a photo of the completed unit.

The whole unit is housed in a fabricated steel enclosure that will be sealed with silicon on final assembly.

  

  

Now a question for those who know more than I. Is there a recommended lubricant that i can use to stop corrosion of the copper, brass components, i was going to use vaseline or copper grease but neither are conductive and i fear that there will be a build up of any lubricant between the end of the probe and the copper ring that will cause problems. Any ideas?

 

That's all for now.

 

Jon

[Gordon_M]

Quote

so i decided to knock something up myself.

Hmm, understatement or what? As regards the rings, I'd protect the contact areas, varnish the lot, clean the contact areas again and then a dab of vaseline.  Your main potentials will be at the brass / copper joints.

[Mk3iain]

You could fill the housing with hyd oil. It may seem daft but it works, we use it for electronic components and sliprings with signal lines and HV around 3kv as well as optical sliprings. It works fine and will keep out moisture and help the bearings.

It will need seals of course but its a thought..

[Sean N]

If the housing will be sealed with RTV, how likely is it that you'll get moisture build up in there?

Could you use a DC motor commutator lubricant?

Alternatively could you just put dessicant in there and change it occasionally?

Edited September 6, 2020 by Sean N

[Simonl]

For contact treatment we used to use a lubricant called Cramolin Red for precision electronic switches. It was expensive and the boss always was reminding us to use it sparingly the bottle lasted years. It is no longer available but a product called D100L-25C DeoxIT is supposed to be the replacement it can be bought from the electronics component supplier CPC.

[johann morris]

13 hours ago, Gordon_M said:

Hmm, understatement or what? As regards the rings, I'd protect the contact areas, varnish the lot, clean the contact areas again and then a dab of vaseline.  Your main potentials will be at the brass / copper joints.

Thanks Gordon, when you say varnish, what sort of varmish?

12 hours ago, Mk3iain said:

You could fill the housing with hyd oil. It may seem daft but it works, we use it for electronic components and sliprings with signal lines and HV around 3kv as well as optical sliprings. It works fine and will keep out moisture and help the bearings.

It will need seals of course but its a thought..

Interesting suggestion, the unit has already got seals at either end of the shaft but i would imagine in situ servicing would be a very messy business. I would rather keep it oil free if truth be known but worth remembering for future reference.

2 hours ago, Sean N said:

If the housing will be sealed with RTV, how likely is it that you'll get moisture build up in there?

Could you use a DC motor commutator lubricant?

Alternatively could you just put dessicant in there and change it occasionally?

DC motor commutator lubricant was my first thought, i just wondered if people had any experience and any recommended products. There isn't enough room to incorporate any dessicant material.

Tanks for the suggestions, any more?

Jon

[Gordon_M]

34 minutes ago, johann morris said:

Thanks Gordon, when you say varnish, what sort of varnish?

 

The sort you get on bare electrical conductors in a motor, that brown stuff, any electrical repair place could let you have some.  Basic suggestion was to coat everything inside that assembly apart from the contact areas, and smear those with vaseline or grease.

[NZM305]

Hope everything is going ok Johann, looking forward to your next update

[John F]

5 hours ago, NZM305 said:

Hope everything is going ok Johann, looking forward to your next update

I've been thinking the same thing, this is my favourite thread on the forum.

[Enigma]

2 minutes ago, John F said:

I've been thinking the same thing, this is my favourite thread on the forum.

I'll thrice that...

[John F]

On a side note, I was looking on the gov.uk website last night and I noticed that tracked vehicles are exempt from vehicle approval in the UK...

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

So you might well be able to register it, Jon :-)

[johann morris]

3 hours ago, John F said:

On a side note, I was looking on the gov.uk website last night and I noticed that tracked vehicles are exempt from vehicle approval in the UK...

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

So you might well be able to register it, Jon 🙂

An interesting idea John but i think that it would be safer for all the other road users if I didn't.

Evening All,

Thanks for asking after me, I  appreciate it. I am, as you can tell, still in the land of the living but with winter coming, in the near future, there was a job that I needed to get done and If I have mentioned this before please forgive me for repeating myself, i blame it on my age.

When i built my workshop i built it to suit Land Rovers, so it didn't need to be that high or have tall doors, fast forward several years and the vehicles that i own, build, have got taller and i need more height, so i decided to remove the roof, raise the walls by 2'6" and rotate the roof 90 degrees so that the door would now be in the end of the workshop. It sounds so simple and what i should have done, is make a steel frame and erect it over the whole building and then demolish the old building but  i am not that sensible. Of course once the building was water tight, I had to rewire it etc. So that's what i have been mostly doing.

On to more important things. The little time that i have had, i have used to make the frame that would house the radios in the original tank.

 

 

 

With a bit of wiggling I should be able to fit the Clansman boxes inside the reproduction German radio's that I am going to make next, I hope.

And that's it for now.

 

Jon

 

 

[lowfat]

Stabillant 22 is what you need for your slip ring lubricant. About 40 quid for a tiny bottle. Every time you open an electrical connector put a dab of this on all the pins. It’s a contact enhancer. Last for years. 

[johann morris]

8 hours ago, lowfat said:

Stabillant 22 is what you need for your slip ring lubricant. About 40 quid for a tiny bottle. Every time you open an electrical connector put a dab of this on all the pins. It’s a contact enhancer. Last for years. 

Thanks Lowfat, I have just ordered a bottle, it sounds just what i am looking for for all the electrical gremlins that i encounter at work. I have also got some of that red electrical varnish to coat the rest of the electrics inside the unit but it was the contact area that really concerned me.

I found this interesting article on the product, from a BMW manual.

 

Model:
All BMW
Complaint:
Connectors which carry low current are more likely to form deposits which affect the resistance of the circuit through the plug connector. Depending upon the particular circuit these deposits can cause malfunctions and consequently activate warning lamps and check control indicators.
Remedy:
Part replacement can temporarily stop the problem.
If the connector is the problem then without disconnecting the connector measure the resistance of the circuit running through the connector to make sure the connector has a high resistance. A good resistor will have close to 0 ohms resistance.
Visually examine the male and female terminals in the connector housing by removing them. Look at the integrity of the wire crimps, and in some male terminals the integrity of the weld of the male pin to the terminal. Then reinstall.
With a zero residue electrical contact cleaner liberally spray the male and female connectors, and allow the air to dry.
Apply Stabilant 22A to both male and female terminals so they are saturated, and reconnect the connectors while they are still wet. When the Stabilant 22A dries it will leave a thin coating of polymer film which is conductive between mating surfaces, and is non-conductive between adjacent pins. It can also prevent the formation of more harmful deposits.

Thanks for all the advice that you have all given it is much appreciated. 

Jon

Edited October 10, 2020 by johann morris
inserted missing text

[lowfat]

I use it on Helicopter electric systems it is authorised on Gas turbine engine electrical systems. It fixes lots of little electrical gremlins.

Super stuff

 

[johann morris]

Evening All,

At last some time to spend playing with me little tank.  As stated before, I am going to be using Clansman intercoms in the tank and the ideal place to hide them is within the radios. I have an original radio but that is of no use as i don't want to ruin it by ripping the innards out, so i have been making a repro set. The radios were housed in the aforementioned  frame on the inside of the hull on the right hand side, viewed from the front of the tank.

 The radio consists of two units side by side.

So the task in hand is to try and recreate these units but with hinged front plates so that there is access to the Clansman boxes inside. Obviously i am not going over the top with them, as they just have to look the part but still it's a time consuming process.

One of two power plugs next to a picture of a real one.

The units are not finished yet but this is it so far.

 

And that's it for now.

 

Jon

[67burwood]

Outstanding work as usual, great attention to detail 👍

[rog8811]

Fantastic work as always, Are you 3D printing your plugs and knobs?