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So the Normandy Tank museum sale is over and the result are now available online, what should be noted is that a large number of vehicle went above their guide prices. Some going for eye watering levels for what they are.

 

Link to the auction results page http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/results.asp?salelist=3114+++&viewtype=all&displaytype=DescriptionImages&Display2=View+Results

 

total sales were valued at 3,551,700

Some of the vehicle that exceeded expectations.

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1944 WILLYS OVERLAND MOTORS - JEEP MB - Sans réserve / No reserveEstimation: 15,000 - 25,000 €Sold for 95,480 €10573024tn.jpg

1942 BMW R75 SIDE CAR - Sans réserve / No reserveEstimation: 35,000 - 45,000 €Sold for 161,200 €10573025tn.jpg

1942 REMORQUE IF8 INFANTERIEHÄNGER IF8 - Sans réserve / No reserveEstimation: 1,000 - 1,500 €Sold for 19,840 €10573028tn.jpg

1942 FORD M8 " GREYHOUND " - Sans réserve/ No reserveEstimation: 50,000 - 80,000 €Sold for 124,000 €

 

10573031tn.jpg

 

1943 HARLEY-DAVIDSON WLA - Sans réserve / No reserveEstimation: 15,000 - 25,000 €Sold for 66,960 €

10576024tn.jpg

1943 WILLYS OVERLAND MOTORS - JEEP MB - Sans réserve / No reserveEstimation: 15,000 - 25,000 €Sold for 74,400 €

10576025tn.jpg

1943 FOOD MACHINERY CORPORATION LVT 4 "LANDING VEHICLE TRACKED" - SanEstimation: 40,000 - 60,000 €Sold for 84,320 €

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$20K for a (French?) infantry cart , wow. There's a German one for sale in Latvia for a small fraction of that, even if it missing the wheels and needs a little patching.

 

http://relicsww2.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63&product_id=229

 

Well I'm happy for the family, if it was my fathers life's work to assemble the collection I would be happy to see it valued to that extent.

 

I bet the auctioneers happy too, made a boat-load on that one

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The well know buyer, assumed that all items in the museum where used on d-day. Which is not the case at all but that he though justifies the price but there need more than one person to think like this to get price to this level. Now some people think they have gold in the garage

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Since when has a German BMW R75 motorbike and side car been worth around double the value of an LVT 4?

 

Bidding fever seems to be infectious!

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The prices are truly bonkers! There appears to be a netherworld populated by people with a great deal more money than knowledge who see these things as investments........which I guess they are, in that netherworld. Unfortunately some of this nonsense trickles down to the real world where real owners not only have to be able to afford to buy vehicles, but to fix and actually run them.

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Have to say I think the same as Ferg. You can see why prices have moved on vehicles (not just military) since 2008 - people weren't getting returns on cash in the bank, so might as well invest in collectables and have the enjoyment of them as well.

 

I do wonder now though whether we're seeing something of a bubble developing - prices are paid at sales like this which don't really have any obvious sense or relationship to other prices, while elsewhere we see vehicles advertised at seemingly very optimistic prices and often unsold for month after month.

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Having seen this happen at other auctions of military vehicle collections around the world, my feeling is that the publicity in national newspapers and media has alerted people to the sales and who have probably been unaware of the collecting movement, websites, dealers, clubs etc. and think this is their only opportunity to buy these vehicles, then there is a bidding frenzy as they try to secure said vehicle because 'they are never going to find one again'. I bet later on someone will tell them there was a such and such vehicle like theirs for sale at half the price elsewhere. I think that a lot of people catch colds at these auctions, but very good for the seller of course. ;)

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As the old Auction saying goes 'Nothing beats a good under bidder to drive the price up'. :cool2:

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High prices are just the way things go ! a mate bought a 741 Army Indian some years ago for 5 grand and everybody in the know laughed because the going rate was much less , now a few years later similar bikes are selling for 15 grand or more. there is only a limited supply left now and prices will only go up.

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Having seen this happen at other auctions of military vehicle collections ... there is a bidding frenzy as they try to secure said vehicle

 

I think that's true of a lot of auctions, not just MV collections. I can recall Land Rovers going at Aston Down in the '90s for more than I could have bought an equivalent vehicle from the local dealer's forecourt.

 

High prices are just the way things go! ... There is only a limited supply left now and prices will only go up.

 

I really don't think that's the case; it assumes demand will always significantly exceed supply. There are strong reasons for prices to have gone up in recent years; but looking at the history of collectables, particularly classic vehicles, the way things seem to go is that prices shoot up due to factors such as availability, interest in a vehicle, other ways of investing etc., but then prices level out or even fall. The trick is judging the top of the market!

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There are strong reasons for prices to have gone up in recent years; but looking at the history of collectables, particularly classic vehicles, the way things seem to go is that prices shoot up due to factors such as availability, interest in a vehicle, other ways of investing etc., but then prices level out or even fall. The trick is judging the top of the market!

 

Agreed Sean and if I look back over the last 40 years there have been slight falls and slack periods in the market but I have to say the mean trend is upwards. Logic would suggest there must be a ceiling price but we don't seem to have reached it yet.

I'm ignoring the prices from the Normandy sale as they are so far above the current market prices to be of no value in judging the market value of any similar vehicles put up for private sale in the next five years.

 

I would be interested to know who the winning bidders were for a number of items, I'l lay wager the vehicles will not be seen again for a good number of years :(.

 

Pete

Edited by Pete Ashby

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I'm ignoring the prices from the Normandy sale as they are so far above the current market prices to be of no value in judging the market value of any similar vehicles up put up for private sale in the next five years.

 

I would be interested to know who the winning bidders were for a number of items, I'l lay wager the vehicles will not be seen again for a good number of years :(.

 

One thing I heard is that one of the bidders who bought a lot of the items for a lot of money from the museum thought all of the kit had actual 6th of June 1944 provenance..... :undecided:

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One thing I heard is that one of the bidders who bought a lot of the items for a lot of money from the museum thought all of the kit had actual 6th of June 1944 provenance..... :undecided:

 

Hmm...... yes I'd heard the same thing Hanno case of very mistaken identity me thinks :rolleyes: we have a saying in English about a misguided person and his money i'm sure you have something similar in Dutch ?

 

Pete

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Still amazing prices. I just hope that this does not eventually price out the poorer museums out there, who are trying to build a historical record of the period through the displaying of typical vehicles and other paraphernalia. Hopefully some of these special machines will find their way into collections on loan for instance. I have already had a few offers of loan vehicles for the Cold War Museum, and once we are properly set up i will certainly be accepting all such offers.

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The prices are truly bonkers! There appears to be a netherworld populated by people with a great deal more money than knowledge who see these things as investments........which I guess they are, in that netherworld. Unfortunately some of this nonsense trickles down to the real world where real owners not only have to be able to afford to buy vehicles, but to fix and actually run them.

 

I guess that these prices are bonkers, yet they are probably lower than a lot of "classic" cars which are seen as investments?

 

jh

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truly staggering prices......did someone really honestly pay 142,000 Euros for a Cushman Scooter ???? well over a hundred £ ?!?!?!?!

..... I am off to the shed to build some genuine WW2 ones ..... ;)

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should make nigel hays price guide interesting in next months cmv what did the command car make they doubled in price after the de groot army cars auction but only for a month;)

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Were the winning bids mostly from Americans? The same thing occured I think with Jack Littlefield collection

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A rumour has it that it is the Jordanian King that has bought a lot of it for his museum. But it is unconfirmed and the other big shopper at the moment is the Australian armour and artillery museum

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Were the winning bids mostly from Americans? The same thing occured I think with Jack Littlefield collection

 

The Littlefield auction -- and I suspect all similar, media-hyped auctions -- had a lot of bidders who are well off, bored with normal toys (sports cars, boats, motorcycles), and are not the typical military vehicle collector aspiring to buy their next piece. These guys can buy another Ferrari, but why bother. For the man that has everything in life, a tank is the last frontier. World War II provenance and bragging rights just make the deal all the better. At the next party, the buyer will casually mention that they own a Sherman (or whatever) that liberated Paris. Who's to know better?

 

One exception (sort of) to the above was Paul Allen's attempted purchase of Panzer IV at Littlefield auction. Allen is an armor collector, and he's a man that has everything (co-founded Microsoft). As many know, he bid $2.5MM, wired the money, but didn't get the tank. He wound up filing a lawsuit, in typical American fashion. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-paul-allen-panzer-20140912-story.html

 

Bottom line, auction prices seem to eclipse rational boundaries.

Edited by datadawg

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Bottom line, auction prices seem to eclipse rational boundaries.

 

Lot of truth in that. At auction it needs two to push the price up, but the flip side of that is it only needs two. I've seen plenty of silly prices at auctions because two buyers got into a bidding war, or because the buyer and underbidder were buying for different reasons to the usual market; particularly when the prices bid are silly money to Joe Public but loose change to them.

 

The unfortunate side effect is when the normal market starts to look at these prices and think they put silly values on everything!

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In the mid-fifties, my father was posted to Benghazi. My mother and I accompanied him and I was 8 years old when we arrived there. Our very first motorised transport was one of the BMW R75 combinations that was presumably left behind following the cessation of hostilities ten years previously.

I remember my father spending a few weeks making it fully road worthy after which he would use it to travel into work and for family outings, mainly to the beach, but also around some of the old Roman sites.

He sold the first then bought another to do up and used the proceeds to buy one of the very early VW Beetles.

He paid £10 each for the BMWs and sold them for £25 each...I suppose that's what inflation does!

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One exception (sort of) to the above was Paul Allen's attempted purchase of Panzer IV at Littlefield auction. Allen is an armor collector, and he's a man that has everything (co-founded Microsoft). As many know, he bid $2.5MM, wired the money, but didn't get the tank. He wound up filing a lawsuit, in typical American fashion.

I wonder whatever happened with that? Either way I guess the vehicle should be in good hands regardless of which party gets it.

 

Not surprisingly, it wasn't the only "tank lawsuit" from the auction . Collings foundation and auctioneer sued over condition of Sherman too.

 

http://loweringthebar.net/2015/11/sherman-tank-lawsuit.html

buyer beware

Anyway, the Sherman tank Damon Becnel bought was in “beautiful condition.” The site described the paint, tracks, and suspension as “perfect,” and said the tank still runs and drives well. And of course most importantly the turret still turns so you can point the gun at the guy who just took your parking spot. All this for just $293,250 (plus shipping).

 

Why did Becnel want to buy a tank? Well, because he could, probably. His family has made lots of money in Florida real estate, which is why he had 300 large to drop on an armored vehicle in the first place. He’s not a collector, and doesn’t seem to have really planned this one out: “Becnel seemed surprised when he was asked where he would put his new 38-ton prize,” the Mercury News said. “I haven’t thought about that yet,” he replied. But with no shortage of Becnel-owned real estate for him to tootle around on, no reason to be concerned.

But he has now changed his mind, it appears, although it isn’t clear why. The case report made it sound like he’s claiming the tank was not as represented, but the complaint tells a different story.

 

Becnel says he went home, completed the paperwork one must complete when buying a tank, and then sat back to await delivery. But no matter how many times he checked the mailbox, no tank. Weeks passed. Inquiries spawned “a litany of excuses.” Finally, Becnel flew back to California and found that not only was his tank still on the property, they were using it to tow other tanks around. Worse, they had left it “sitting out with no cover, with the hatches open, exposing the pristine interior of the tank to be exposed [sic] to the elements.” He says the tracks and paint were damaged, so the tank was no longer the “museum quality” item he bought. Based on these facts, Becnel now wants to rescind the contract.

 

 

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Lot of truth in that. At auction it needs two to push the price up, but the flip side of that is it only needs two. I've seen plenty of silly prices at auctions because two buyers got into a bidding war, or because the buyer and underbidder were buying for different reasons to the usual market; particularly when the prices bid are silly money to Joe Public but loose change to them…...

 

I got into a bidding war once - until I realised the other bidder was in fact the auctioneer running me up :mad:

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