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BlueBelle

Libya, Tripolitania, vehicles, barracks 1950s to 1966

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So what is the generator then? So similar to the 10Kva dragged around by Bedford RL Machy wagons in BAOR 70s and 80s (probably longer).

 

There were several makes of 10Kva on the 1 ton trailer, two were Petbow and Morrison, both with 3 cyl Perkins diesels, this in you photo is neither. Another one comes to mind that had a Rolls Royce B40 engine, think it could have been made by Air-Log

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foot note the range of BG numbers given 01 BG 01 to 99 BG 46 where one contract for all types of AUSTIN K9s

if l did not make it clear

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Pssst! Want to see some gas cylinders? An MRA1 too, well, just the rear end anyway. Hmmm, with gas cylinders close by, that must surely be the Welding Truck? Elf n Safety springs to mind; free standing gas cylinders are a no-no, as are cylinders lying down, especially if they're acetylene! Goodness gracious, how do i know about stuff like that, I hear you ask. Well, just look me up on LI or my business website. I wrote the script and handbook for Air Products' 'Safe use of Oxy Acetylene' safety video and ... the safety handbook for industrial and analytical gases.

After the children, naturally. :laugh:

More ghibli damage in the desert.

Photos by Wilf Harrison 2RTR/REME

 

Edited by BlueBelle

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Pssst! Want to see some gas cylinders? An MRA1 too, well, just the rear end anyway. Hmmm, with gas cylinders close by, that must surely be the Welding Truck? Elf n Safety springs to mind; free standing gas cylinders are a no-no, as are cylinders lying down, especially if they're acetylene! Goodness gracious, how do i know about stuff like that, I hear you ask. Well, just look me up on LI or my business website. I wrote the script and handbook for Air Products' 'Safe use of Oxy Acetylene' safety video and ... the safety handbook for industrial and analytical gases.

After the children, naturally. :laugh:

More ghibli damage in the desert.

Photos by Wilf Harrison 2RTR/REME

 

The cylinders lying on the rack are marked 'welding oxygen'. they are smaller diameter than the acetylene which are standing. I think it was acetylene that should not be laid down as it is liquid and a filling of kapok if I think back nearly 50 years when taught gas welding.

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Last one of ghibli damage before getting back to Tripolitania.

Can you see anything odd, really odd in this photo?

 

Edited by BlueBelle

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Last one of ghibli damage before getting back to Tripolitania.

Can you see anything odd, really odd in this photo?

Chorehorse exhaust appears to go into the vehicle?

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Last one of ghibli damage before getting back to Tripolitania.

Can you see anything odd, really odd in this photo?

Negative is reversed, see Saladin silencer and div signs

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The cylinders lying on the rack are marked 'welding oxygen'. they are smaller diameter than the acetylene which are standing. I think it was acetylene that should not be laid down as it is liquid and a filling of kapok if I think back nearly 50 years when taught gas welding.

Very good! Just remember that if an acetylene cylinder falls over there is a chance that thermal dissociation will occur, unfettered breakdown of the gas in the cylinder (not the acetone into which the gas is dissolved) which generates heat, raises the pressure, generates more heat, generates more pressure until .......boom! Acetylene cylinders stopped having thermal plugs (to melt under fire or thermal dissociation conditions) and pressure relief devices years ago as there operation when required had proven unreliable. Move a cylinder that's got hot inside and .... boom! Think about the exclusion zones and gentle cooling processes the Emergency Services put in place under these circumstances.

There are some other gas cylinders that don't have pressure relief devices fitted, beware! Cylinders shouldn't be left or used horizontally either, if they roll or fall over, valves can shear and cylinders can rocket. Gas cylinders are safe in trained, competent hands and only in safe systems of work. Hmm, was that a digression? Yes. (Don't forget to get your flashback arrestors checked! Oh, you don't bother fitting them! :shocked: )

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Negative is reversed, see Saladin silencer and div signs

 

Yes! Yes! Plus I thought that little generator was on the 'wrong' wing!

I must try to get the negative or transparency from Wilf's son or get him to correct it. Oddly enough, I've spotted more reversed images, even one or two I've put on here but I kept quiet about it! The only real clue would have been the District flash.

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Chorehorse exhaust appears to go into the vehicle?

 

Would that be because the negative is reversed? I find reversed negatives mind-boggling in trying to work out what I should really be seeing.

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foot note the range of BG numbers given 01 BG 01 to 99 BG 46 where one contract for all types of AUSTIN K9s

if l did not make it clear

 

Thanks Wally. That's helped us a great deal. A real story to be told, behind every VRN.

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I don't think it can be BC as 43 BC 71 - 99 BC 99 was not used.

 

BG makes more sense & would make it a signals truck which makes the basic vehicle Bridge Class 4, but some fitted with certain installations were Bridge Class 5. So are they different vehicles or has it changed the type of radio installation between photos?

 

 

I agree with CLIVE about the BC numbers if the K9 NUMBERS where BG then 34 BG 06 was a cargo 94 BG 06 and

94 BG 08 where FFW NUMBERS 01 BG 01 to 99 BG 46 where supplied under contract 6/V/7877 start on the contract

in the financial year 1951/52

 

Clive, Wally, thanks. Wally, I hoped you would chip in. I said earlier I would be much happier if the registrations were BG and this is why. I felt BC was not possible, though I can't find my list of K9 ARNs, and also I still own a very early production K9 which is BG registration, again implying they could not be BC.

 

So we have maybe 34 BG 06, 94 BG 06 and possibly 94 BG 08. Or maybe just 34 BG 06 and 94 BG 06. Or maybe just 94 BG 06. Although the thread has moved on I'd still like to be sure the one Lizzie is interpreting as 34 BG 06 is definitely a different truck and not 94 BG 06 again. I wish we had service history for these vehicles to pin it down.

 

And there is still something odd about all of them though I think I have an explanation.

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Yes! Yes! Plus I thought that little generator was on the 'wrong' wing!

I must try to get the negative or transparency from Wilf's son or get him to correct it. Oddly enough, I've spotted more reversed images, even one or two I've put on here but I kept quiet about it! The only real clue would have been the District flash.

 

You should be able to flip the image in Photoshop. Image > Rotate > Flip Horizontal.

 

Untitled-1.jpg

 

I don't think the charger exhaust goes into the vehicle, just down the side.

 

Ford Anglia in the background.

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Regarding the reversed negative problem: if you have a reversed digital image, most photo programs will sort it easily. I open the photo in Microsoft office picture manager, then 'Picture', rotate and flip, flip horizontaly, save. Job done !

 

David

 

Sean, you beat me to it!

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You should be able to flip the image in Photoshop. Image > Rotate > Flip Horizontal.

 

Untitled-1.jpg

 

I don't think the charger exhaust goes into the vehicle, just down the side.

 

Ford Anglia in the background.

Well, would you believe it! Another perfect learning opportunity realised. Thank you Sean. Nothing odd about the photo now!!!

Ford Anglia, yes. They appear on several more photos I have of those days in those places; I am sure Benghazi had a dealer then as well as one in Tripoli. NAAFI may well have been in the car dealership business there too, importing 'tax-free cars of your dreams' for service folk.

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Regarding the reversed negative problem: if you have a reversed digital image, most photo programs will sort it easily. I open the photo in Microsoft office picture manager, then 'Picture', rotate and flip, flip horizontaly, save. Job done !

 

David

 

Sean, you beat me to it!

 

Thank you David! It was so simple all along and I had just not realised the full effect off those functions! Preview programme on the Mac does that too as I've just practiced and of course, my Photoshop does it too. :-)

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As no-one is biting on the K9s I'd better follow my own question!

 

In my experience with K9s there are three main cab types. Early vehicles (early BG registrations) with a civilian Loadstar type cab and no roof hatch; main production vehicles with military cab, roof hatch but unvented bonnet; and late vehicles with uprated military cab and vented bonnet.

 

In the first image, on the parade ground, I was thrown as the K9 ARN was earlier than the RL ARN, but the K9 appeared to be a later truck. The main reason I thought it was later was because of the bonnet with ventilation slots in the front, which only appeared on late K9s. I wasn't thinking about (the implications of) the specific ARN.

 

In the colour image, I took the lead K9 to be our old friend 94 BG 06 again, as the first digit looked partly obscured; but although this was a later image, it seemed to have lost its roof hatch and gun mount brackets. Only the first few hundred K9s had the civilian type cab with no hatch.

 

If the service registration of that lead K9 is 34 BG 06 it would make more sense as that would put it firmly in the early batch with the civilian cab, no roof hatch.

 

And thinking about it, despite the apparent lateness of the bonnet, 94 BG 06 (or 08) is still quite an early registration for a K9 - in that first 1951 - 1952 contract that Wally mentioned, so it could be around the same age as the early RL.

 

But - all the K9s irrespective of age have the late bonnet, typical of later contracts. Why? Did they have a habit of wrecking bonnets in Libya?

 

I wonder if the answer is this. In my experience with K9s they tend to build up underbonnet heat which vapourises the fuel, making them difficult to restart hot. OK, my experience is with modern not 1960s fuel, but I wonder if they found it to be a problem in the desert and either changed the bonnets of vehicles going out there, or specified hot climate vehicles with the vented bonnet which later made it to all production vehicles?

 

The master parts list has two bonnets listed, for WB and WD/D vehicles, but isn't clear on what the different vehicle or bonnet types are, and unhelpfully doesn't have drawings of the bonnet(s).

Edited by Sean N

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I'll peruse these & see what it says about cabs, bonnets & weights

 

FVRDE Spec. 9502 Body, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, (Austin). 1951

FVRDE Spec. 9503 Body, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, (RAF), (Austin). 1952

FVRDE Spec. 9513 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4, GS (Austin) Water Tanker 200 Gallons, FV16008, Air Ministry Version. 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9514 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4, GS (Austin) Water Tanker 200 Gallons, FV16102. 1952

FVRDE Spec. 9533 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS (Austin) Wireless Light, FV16003. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9555 Body, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Cargo, FV16001. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9574 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS (Austin) Cargo FFW, FV16002. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9594 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Water Tanker, 200 Gallons (War office version FV16009) 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9595 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Cargo, FFW, Mk 2, FV16002. 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9673 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, 4x4, Austin Series III, FV16012. 1960

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I wonder if the answer is this. In my experience with K9s they tend to build up underbonnet heat which vapourises the fuel, making them difficult to restart hot.

 

That was certainly a problem with Hornets, they welded a 2" strut on the "bonnet" edges each side.

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FVRDE Spec. 9502 Body, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, (Austin). 1951

FVRDE Spec. 9503 Body, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, (RAF), (Austin). 1952

FVRDE Spec. 9513 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4, GS (Austin) Water Tanker 200 Gallons, FV16008, Air Ministry Version. 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9514 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4, GS (Austin) Water Tanker 200 Gallons, FV16102. 1952

FVRDE Spec. 9533 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS (Austin) Wireless Light, FV16003. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9555 Body, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Cargo, FV16001. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9574 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS (Austin) Cargo FFW, FV16002. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9594 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Water Tanker, 200 Gallons (War office version FV16009) 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9595 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Cargo, FFW, Mk 2, FV16002. 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9673 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, 4x4, Austin Series III, FV16012. 1960

 

Clive,

 

Had I known you had this lot I'd have been round to yours when you were 45 minutes away rather than four hours as you are now!

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SEAN`

To try to explain as l said 1951/52 was a good year for the british army for purchasing new vehicles so much so that a number of blocks of registration numbers were issued in the B* range one of which was BJ The one shown with the K9

halftrack and Bedford RL binned which l make out as 42 BJ 70 was supplied as one of a batch of BJ RLs numbers

ranging from 42 BJ 40 TO 46 BJ 16 contract number 6/V/7951. These vehicles would delivered over a number of years

and any changes ordered or made would appear on the late delivered vehicles thou from the original contract

l hope this goes some way to explain other years when a large number of vehicles were ordered more than one block

of numbers were used the financial year 1963/64 used the blocks EL/EM as a example

 

WALLY

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Sean N said:

But - all the K9s irrespective of age have the late bonnet, typical of later contracts. Why? Did they have a habit of wrecking bonnets in Libya?

 

I wonder if the answer is this. In my experience with K9s they tend to build up underbonnet heat which vapourises the fuel, making them difficult to restart hot. OK, my experience is with modern not 1960s fuel, but I wonder if they found it to be a problem in the desert and either changed the bonnets of vehicles going out there, or specified hot climate vehicles with the vented bonnet which later made it to all production vehicles?

 

The master parts list has two bonnets listed, for WB and WD/D vehicles, but isn't clear on what the different vehicle or bonnet types are, and unhelpfully doesn't have drawings of the bonnet(s).

 

Wrecking bonnets? Lifting bonnets? No, take the bonnet off and sling it in the cargo body with the two spare tyres and the two camels who will be nonplussed! I suspect this K9 may have been abandoned? There looks to be a poorly Landrover too? Not too sure about the VRN on this one either! Ha Ha! It does though begin with an L for Libya, doesn't it? The stripe markings on the truck tail mean what, I wonder? Would you carry camels in your K9?

The photo is one that appeared in an auction house with no supporting information and I believe it shows an ex-British Military Mission/British Naval Mission vehicle sold off in an extreme hurry along with the 20+ fleet to Arab motor dealers in Tripoli on being booted out in a fit of pique by Gadhafi. The BMM went first, passing all their trucks and LRs to the BNM, leaving the Navy bods to dispose of everything, children's toys too, in hastily abandoned MQs/Hirings. I have the full account, though its for another time and place.

 

Edited by BlueBelle

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I'll peruse these & see what it says about cabs, bonnets & weights

 

FVRDE Spec. 9502 Body, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, (Austin). 1951

FVRDE Spec. 9503 Body, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, (RAF), (Austin). 1952

FVRDE Spec. 9513 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4, GS (Austin) Water Tanker 200 Gallons, FV16008, Air Ministry Version. 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9514 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4, GS (Austin) Water Tanker 200 Gallons, FV16102. 1952

FVRDE Spec. 9533 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS (Austin) Wireless Light, FV16003. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9555 Body, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Cargo, FV16001. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9574 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS (Austin) Cargo FFW, FV16002. 1953

FVRDE Spec. 9594 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Water Tanker, 200 Gallons (War office version FV16009) 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9595 Truck, 1 Ton, 4x4 GS, (Austin), Cargo, FFW, Mk 2, FV16002. 1954

FVRDE Spec. 9673 Body & Mounting for Truck, 1 Ton, GS, Cargo, 4x4, Austin Series III, FV16012. 1960

 

Hello Clive what do these publications cover? I'm keen to get details of the original interior fit of my K9 wireless light but every photo /illustration for a standard wireless light I have found seems to cover the radio table end only. I would love to get details of the storage/battery lockers I have seen referenced in some of the manuals.

 

PT

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AF I'm afraid that although I have quite a large number of these FVRDE Specs they do not include any drawings. These two pages cover your area of interest. As you no doubt already know, it states the interior is to be painted enamel gloss eau-de-nil.

 

Scan0140.jpg

 

Scan0141.jpg

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Well, to quote Sean "No one has bitten', I shall say the same about those ghibli-battered frame tent shelters that served as the REME workshops for 2RTR LAD in Wavell Barracks, Benghazi. I'm not though, able to tell you what the correct nomenclature/designation/name was for those structures (prior to damage :-))? Does anyone know? I hope they do and posts the answer so we can get out of Cyrenaica and back into Tripolitania District.

To further aid you, a photo by John Empson REME.

 

Edited by BlueBelle

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