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WW1 Peerless lorry restoration

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I have always bort 25L drums as horse feed and mixed it at 8 or 9 parts water to 1 molasses in a 200L barrel and just kept topping it up with water or molasses to replace any losses.

All the information on YouTube says it's not toxic and can be tipped down the drain when you have done.

There was a clip on YouTube showing a rusty AT gun been dropped in a plastic swimming pool and filled with a tanker.

Peter.

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If you know a dairy farmer it is worth talking to them about the product used to remove calcium deposits from inside the milking machinery. This is actually phosphoric acid and as purchaced is strong enough to fizz if a tiny amount is spilt on concrete. The instructions warn that it will burn on contact with the skin and tell the user to dilute it 200 : 1 and circulate it through the system for ten mins after milking while the system is still hot. Then flush with clean water.

Phosphoric acid is almost ideal as a rust inhibitor as it converts rust to ferrous phosphate which is stable and is the active ingredient in rust inhibiting primers like Bondaprimer. It is not a good idea to inhale it or get it on your skin but good ventilation and rubber gloves and a good supply of clean water in case of spills should avoid most problems. I have not used it to treat items that have been in molasses but have used it on sand blasted items with great success. I would suggest that this is the ideal way to stop the almost instant rusting that occurs after de-rusting with molasses. As I said, phosphoric acid CONVERTS rust to ferrous phosphate but does not remove any amount of it, you need molasses or blasting for that first.

David

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Phosphoric acid.

Read the side of a can of Coke.

We all drink it with little side effect, apart for getting fat!

It's a well known rust remover.

 

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When I worked in REME workshops, there was a large engine recondtioning section. In the cleaning section were large tanks of phosphoric acid solution, which I think was heated. Large baskets containing the stripped parts of an engine would go in to the tanks and come out clean. To contradict David, there was no blasting or molasses involved in the process and any rust deposits were gone. The inside of the water jacket of a cylinder block was as clean as a whistle on removing from the tank. We used to take other parts in for cleaning and there was no need to use a wire wheel on them.

I think Coke is a slightly milder solution but it does have some cleaning effect.

regards, Richard

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we have been using a dairy milking machine product called milkstone for a while with very good results it is cheap and we buy it in 20 litre drums great for cleaning out fuel tanks

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We have discussed dipping steel in Molasses and how it successfully cleans up rusty steel - and we have now seen the results of this for ourselves - quite amazing and pleasing! Two very sad looking P and H Acetylene Headlamps came with the Head Light Brackets and they are quite rusty with some bits of them beyond repair. They have been stripped down and the outside rusty case of one - which is just steel - has now been left soaking in a Molasses solution as well. We already have two good concave original P an H reflectors and with some of the newly arrived parts, some that we already have in stock and with other bits given to us, we have enough to make up two sound Head Lamps.

The reflectors are contained within beautifully made steel cases - shaped around the back of the concave mirror in a fitted convex form to match the back shape of the reflector and then with a steel flange folded around the front edge of the reflector glass and then around the back edge of the back steel case. This holds the Reflector firmly. On the back of the case are fitted four steel lugs which are used to fasten the reflector to the outside case. On one mirror, the lugs are riveted to the case and on another they are soft soldered.

Now to come to my question - and maybe a chemist will be able to answer if no one else has considered trying this or had any experience of it - can I dip the steel encompassed reflectors as they are, still in their steel soldered cases with a silvered back to the glass, in the molasses solution, just to get the rust off the steel - without damaging the Reflectors - especially the silvering?

Tony

 

 

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Tony,

Having investigated the price of replacing 4 inch concave mirrors recently.    I was shocked to hear they would be in excess of £1000 each.

The short answer is don't risk it !

Tomo

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Maybe an experiment with a cheap old bicycle lamp or similar is in order? 

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Brush Fertan on the rusty steel after a light steel brushing. Wet it an hour later and than 24 hours later You can wash all rubish off and you aready for priming and painting. Have got good results with that but you have to stick to the instructions they give. The stuff isn't very agressive.

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After the success of placing the newly acquired rusty Head Lamp Brackets in Molasses to clean the rust off them, we dug the Side Lamp Brackets out from their long term storage – they were heavily rusted, too - to give them the same treatment. The second picture shows them as acquired with the remains of the original lamps still attached and the Coach Bolts that were used to fix them to the scuttle, before treatment. The first picture shows them after being taken out of the Molasses after 10 days – still wet and covered in the solution before that was cleaned off with cold water.
 
The third picture shows them after an initial quick wire brushing.

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Edited by Great War truck
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Have you considered electrolysis? The result is as good as with the molasses, just the time it takes is like 2, 3 or 4 hours instead of 10 days. I am pretty sure you know it, but anyway - a bucket full of water with a couple of spoons of caustic soda /NaOH/ in it, the piece you want to clean, a useless piece of metal /about the same size as the one to clean/ and a car battery charger. Put the metals in the water solution /separated, not touching/, the useless iron connected to + wire and the part to be cleaned connected to - wire /that's important/. A slow reaction with miniature bubbles takes place and after 2-4 hours /depends on the size of the piece and the rust thickness/ the rust and dirt are lose, leaving clean metal surface. Same procedure of cleaning and painting follows, as after a molasses bath. There is black residue on the metal which must be removed by wire wheel or just water and a brush. Needs to be painted as soon as possible, as the metal surface is chemically clean and very easily starts to rust. What is important, the reaction has no effect on the good metal! Only the rust is removed, but the good metal is untouched! Also, bolts that are "welded" by rust and wouldn't move or would break, can be removed much easier after the electrolysis.

But don't use it on aluminum, zinc, etc. Use it on iron, steel, cast iron, also I believe it would not harm brass, although have not tried it on brass so far. The solution is a bit harmful to the hands, if too rich of soda, mostly stings any wounds on the fingers and gives some soapy feeling to the skin, but a hands wash instantly fixes that. Also, it is not aggressive to the drain, in fact the caustic soda is used for ages, for cleaning clogged drains - and this solution is very diluted.

    If you have some skills in the field of electricity, you can make the electricity adjustable, for best reaction. Or, you can do it like me /having no such sills/ - adding water or NaOH until getting the best solution, allowing strongest reaction without burning the car battery charger. BTW I have seen in the net that people use PC power units or specially built power units for the electrolysis. I always use car battery charger and the result is excellent.

Edited by Ted170

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In regards to the electrolysis bath mentioned above... 

Use this process in a well ventilated area...as it gives off hydrogen gas whilst in use... 

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For brass cleaning i had good results with vinigar with a few spoons of salt in it. You see it eating away the green oxydation.

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Thanks for all of your suggestions chaps. Dad has been trying 'Fertan' so I am looking forward to seeing the results. We haven't tried electrolysis yet but it is one to keep up our sleeves. In the mean time, one of the chains has been in the molasses and has come out quite well.

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Some of the links are still seized so it needs some more work but it is a good start.

We have been fortunate to have been given another P&H lamp. This is the same as the original pair that we have but has a much better casing so between them, we can make up a good pair.

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It is missing the badge but Dad has managed to salvaeg the one on the rotten lamp.

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Into the molasses!

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The new casing still had some paint on it so the molasses didn't have any effect in those areas and it had to be finished off with a wire brush.

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Dad has had some new glasses cut for them.

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Meanwhile, we cannot resist having a bit of a go at the job. We have decided that our Christmas project will be to pull the engine out and tear it down as we think that we have just enough space to do that. It is getting tight though!

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Tim has taken the bonnet and top hose off and is looking to remove the radiator.

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One bonnet catch remained on the chassis. We are going to need eight of these for the two lorries so I foresee some serious filing in my future!

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We are going to need an engine stand as well. The Peerless engine sits on the chassis rails rather than a sub-frame so the engine stand needs to be wider. A little modification was therefore undertaken.

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Must go and finish the Thornycroft!

Steve   :)

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On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 3:55 PM, Ted170 said:

Have you considered electrolysis? The result is as good as with the molasses, just the time it takes is like 2, 3 or 4 hours instead of 10 days. I am pretty sure you know it, but anyway - a bucket full of water with a couple of spoons of caustic soda /NaOH/ in it, the piece you want to clean, a useless piece of metal /about the same size as the one to clean/ and a car battery charger. Put the metals in the water solution /separated, not touching/, the useless iron connected to + wire and the part to be cleaned connected to - wire /that's important/. A slow reaction with miniature bubbles takes place and after 2-4 hours /depends on the size of the piece and the rust thickness/ the rust and dirt are lose, leaving clean metal surface. Same procedure of cleaning and painting follows, as after a molasses bath. There is black residue on the metal which must be removed by wire wheel or just water and a brush. Needs to be painted as soon as possible, as the metal surface is chemically clean and very easily starts to rust. What is important, the reaction has no effect on the good metal! Only the rust is removed, but the good metal is untouched! Also, bolts that are "welded" by rust and wouldn't move or would break, can be removed much easier after the electrolysis.

But don't use it on aluminum, zinc, etc. Use it on iron, steel, cast iron, also I believe it would not harm brass, although have not tried it on brass so far. The solution is a bit harmful to the hands, if too rich of soda, mostly stings any wounds on the fingers and gives some soapy feeling to the skin, but a hands wash instantly fixes that. Also, it is not aggressive to the drain, in fact the caustic soda is used for ages, for cleaning clogged drains - and this solution is very diluted.

    If you have some skills in the field of electricity, you can make the electricity adjustable, for best reaction. Or, you can do it like me /having no such sills/ - adding water or NaOH until getting the best solution, allowing strongest reaction without burning the car battery charger. BTW I have seen in the net that people use PC power units or specially built power units for the electrolysis. I always use car battery charger and the result is excellent.

I understand that the sacrificial metal connected to the positive and negative need to be different size from the metal you are trying to clean,

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You may remember about 20 years ago while in California we were introduced to an old boy who used to drive a Peerless fuel tanker as an eleven year old while his dad took a nap. I understand that he could not reach the pedals but would wake his dad up when necessary. The fuel business was purchased and as part of the deal the Peerless was broken up and scrapped apart from the chassis which was used to level ground when it was towed behind a tractor and the radiator which was kept as a souvenir. In LA we met with the eleven year old (now in his 90's) who still had the radiator which he sold to us. it is in super condition and wont need much attention before fitting.

Peerless 51.jpg

Peerless rad 2.bmp

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Here is a photo of a Peerless tanker delivering fuel to the US army. If you look closely you can see it has Standard Oil on the side of the tank. When the old boys Father purchased his Peerless tanker it came from Standard Oil! Could it be the same radiator? Probably not but it must have come from the same fleet. 

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