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Tina&Roger

Hillman Minx Saloon RAF Staff Car restore & markings

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Hi all,

 

We just (this weekend) bought a Hillman Minx Saloon 1941 to restore and brought it from UK to Belgium.

We would like it to be in original RAF-colors again !

 

 

While stripping the black paint (it was rebuild in 1948 into a cab) we found lettering on back doors. Still have to strip another part, but now I’m trying to do some research about RAF vehicle markings. Hard to find !!!

The markings on the front right wing, was already made visible by the previous owners ...

I have paint chips of the original RAF blue grey that was underneath the other paint layers, so the color is no problem.

 

OVERALL FRONT (Medium).JPG

 

Right front wing marking:

 

base color of wing is black

 

H’24

with RAF roundel Type A diagonally below

 

On the left back door:

 

H + 2 or 3 digits we guess

 

The right front door panel has been repaired earlier, so no more markings on it.

The left front door panel, there is no marking either ...

 

Quenstions:

- What's the meaning of the number 24 and letter H’ ? Must been sqn numbers but wich one ...

- What means black wings ?? Red wings are "Bombs Disposal" ... but black :wow:

- Any help about vehicle markings would be fantastic !!

 

 

 

Thanks a lot,

Tina

Edited by Tina&Roger

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A few questions; Is it a vehicle that was impressed in to service or one produced for the RAF?

 

I seem to remember a small number of cars were made for essential use early in the war, so was it built in black paint? If it was made for the RAF it could have been RAF blue up to August 1941. As for the Black wings these were used on some RAF vehicles just prior to WW2 but Black wings were standard post war for a few years when RAF Blue replaced the British Army style camo of the war years.

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Hi Larry,

 

well we try to make the 'reconstruction' of its history ...

- serial/Vin nr says it's an '41 ... Found the RAF blue grey paint on the bottom layer of the body.

Numbers painted on black front wings, so we presume it was originally RAF blue grey with black wings ...

 

- then I found blue paint (2nd layer paint done with a brush) over the black front wings, under the black cab paint (3rd layer paint)

 

- it's rebuild in 1948, into the cab

HILLMAN CONDITION MAY 14 010.JPG

 

- date first registration in UK: 1955 as a cab

 

And that's all we have :-(

 

Tina

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Although not impossible it was unlikely to have been painted RAF blue from new. The RAF had gone over to standard army camouflage colours by then.

 

It was probably re-sprayed Blue during the post-war rebuild.

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As above.

It would almost certainly have been black originally if it was assigned as a staff car for a senior officer, otherwise it would have been in whatever camouflage was flavour of the moment. Presumably stripped and painted blue-grey with "black wings, valances and chassis" when the RAF introduced that scheme in 1946, the black bits were dropped in 1954 iirc.

H/24 indicates it was assigned to a station in 24 group Technical Training Command

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As you are finding, markings and colour schemes cause many 'discussions' :D Just to add to the hassle, a number of just pre WW2 cars used a very bluish primer coat. Try looking at some very obscure place that resprays might have missed. If the vehicle stayed in UK, even if it was a military vehicle, it would have had white blackout markings on it. Not often seen on restorations, but eye catching, and correct.

DSC03476.jpg

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Wauw !! Thank you for this stunning info about the wings and numbers !! Just what I was looking for :dancing:

 

I just went trough the paperwork wich was with the car and it says: "the contract number was a RAF contract.

So the car was ordered for the RAF ! It seems it was not built earlier than August 1941.

970 Hillman Minx Saloons were ordered in this contract."

 

I'm one happy girl :laugh:

 

@ Tony B: It stayed in UK untill last weekend, so we there is a big chance we will paint the blackout stripes when it's correct !

@ RAFMT: I'm thrilled !!!

@ REME: We will certainly look for a hidden spot of blue paint !!

 

 

Regards,

Tina

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This Hillman Minx was rebuilt by Henlys at WESTON SUPER MARE Auxiliary Army Workshop B269

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All part of the fun! :D I'll try and get you a better picture of the blackout if you like?

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Hi Tina,

Welcome to HMVF. That looks like a good restoration project. Have you tried to obtain the RAF MT Vehicle Record Card from the RAF Museum at Hendon. You might be surprised at what they have available, (or might not have. lol.).

 

Regards Rick.

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This vehicle is based on an original photograph from RAF Middleton St George. From the registration documents showing the area of registrations, the owner believes it is the same vehicle in his original photo, 'though he can't be 100% sure.

 

lanc7.jpg

 

barnard11.jpg

 

sedgefield20.jpg

 

durham12.jpg

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Have you tried to obtain the RAF MT Vehicle Record Card from the RAF Museum at Hendon. You might be surprised at what they have available, (or might not have. lol.).

 

Without a post 49 reg number, or even a block of numbers to check through, it's unlikely anything will turn up :(

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For what it is worth while clearing out a box of files l came a cross a file titled Schedule of Allocation of Registration

Numbers to Vehicles Post {1948 RAF} it states numbers 19 AB 53 T0 33 AB 53 where allocated to HILLMAN

10 HP Saloon car

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May we see the original photo mentioned above, that the owner has, as I'm not sure the black and white photo above is 'wartime'.

 

Also the vehicle doesn't seem to be the same one on milweb http://www.milweb.net/webvert/a1668 unless it was restored in record time and re-registered.

Edited by LarryH57

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It's not the same Hillman, and I don't have the original wartime picture. The Lancaster picture was from 2014 when the Canadian Lancaster visited Middleton St George.

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Hello Tina,

 

Congratulations, and nice to see that there's another Minx in Belgium !

 

I have a '38 Minx saloon deluxe (white blackout and Home Guard markings).

 

Underneath the wipermotor I found some original untouched blue-grey paint... It looks exactly like the RAF colour they used to have... (or is it the primer coat Tony was talking about ?).

 

Anyway, would love to exchange some usefull info about those cars.

I'll try to post some pictures.

 

I'm living close to Gent by the way, and I think we have a common frend called Marc (from the Netherlands) who wrote a nice book about the RMC.

 

Regards,

Bernard

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Bernard De Smet

 

If the Hillman was built in 1938 for the RAF, it would certainly have been gloss RAF blue, but then most likely repainted in camouflage colours in Wartime.

 

BTW - If you ever strip the engine I'd be interested to see photos of the cam driven push rod drive for the fuel pump, as I was working on a Hillman Tilly with a friend who had a problem with the push rod as it seems the end had worn near the cam shaft, so there was no back and forward movement on the rod to work the fuel pump. We had to fit an electric one rather than strip the engine.

 

If its the cam shaft that's worn a new push rod won't work.

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