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julezee001

War and Peace Revival 2016, Is anybody going?

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"so dont take your vehicles and the show will die."

For us it is the hopfarm next year. Our (my wife, dad and me) disabilities make it hard to reach the toilets by wheelchair on the Kitchener's field. We use matresses on that same bumpy conditions so it hurts my spine up to screaming point.

That is next to the insults I got from the new organiser :(

 

Ouch that sounds painful, did you hurt your spine at the show ?

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2010, I slipped and fell on a ledge while I de iced the 1962 2a army land rover. End of career, end of a easy life.

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2010, I slipped and fell on a ledge while I de iced the 1962 2a army land rover. End of career, end of a easy life.

 

Oh no sad to hear that, sometimes something so simple can cause so much trouble. What career did you have to end in such a quick way.

I like the sound of easy life :D.

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That doesn't actually say the race course is NOT being built on - it says there is a development afoot for a 12,000 home estate the area for which includes the race course:

 

"The new proposals have now been revealed as incorporating the land around and including Folkestone Racecourse - which closed to racing in 2012."

 

Hi Neil,

 

It reads two ways, like a politician;

 

A huge 12,000-home development is being put forward for former farmland near Folkestone Racecourse, KentOnline can exclusively reveal.

 

I think we will wait and see.

Edited by Vlaanderen

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I’ll give my two pennies worth having visited W&P every year for around 15 years, sometimes staying and sometimes as this year only going as a member of the paying public on one day. I very much want this show or another very much like it to survive, I like it, it’s great to see a lot of vehicles and reenactors and see friends all in one place.

 

Additionally as the owner of some larger vehicles and a collector of WW2 ‘stuff’ I feel it’s very important for the European dealers to be there in one place and in large numbers, they give me far more and cheaper purchasing options than some of the very expensive English dealers who I fear are getting unrealistic in some cases. So in my view large numbers of dealers from many countries in one place is the main selling point and the reason for me visiting the show just as much as seeing other vehicles and friends.

 

As has been said vehicle/reenactor numbers are very much down and this will mean a slow death as it feeds the public interest/attendance, revenue for the stall holders and dare I say now revenue for the show organisers. The location is not suitable, it’s near the ferry for the European people which is good but it’s just too far for many on this side of the Channel. It’s clear we all liked the Hop Farm but even that is a bit too far, it needs to be nearer to say Newbury, near enough for the European people but also much easier for vehicle owners in the Midlands/North of the UK.

 

Many of the trade stands were very unhappy with numerous things as I heard negative comments from more than ever previously, if they keep getting more cost, less flexibility and it gets more difficult they will stop coming.

 

The toilets have been mentioned, they were terrible last year and as bad this year. It’s simple, if I can’t wash and go to the toilet how can I stay for more than a day, £10 or no £10.

 

Regarding the not opening on Sunday and not being able to leave when you wish, I understand why they have been bought in but they will reduce revenue through the gate and vehicles attending. It’s simple it doesn’t fit people’s lives or time available to attend to be forced into one option each (Saturday for the public and 5 days for Exhibitors) we do this for a hobby not as a commercial business.

 

I’m working on my Autocar U8144 currently, it maybe ready for next year (or not ?) it’s rare as most will know and with its trailer should hopefully make an exhibit that I hope will be of interest. So the question is what’s going to tempt me to drive it all the way from Somerset and pay for the privilege in both fuel and entry fee and toilets, sorry currently it’s not what I saw this year, I can go to many more local shows for the cost of this one.

 

I would really, really like to be wrong/have my view changed and see this show prosper and I will be the first person to commit to going but I can realistically only see giving it one more year as a day visitor, it’s a lot more realistic.

 

I’m sorry but the new owner does need to rethink his business plan, the balance of trade, vehicles, reenactors and location is delicate and you will never keep everybody happy, but if you just move toward more profit then these will all fall away in turn and it will fail.

 

Lastly to end on a high I’d like to thank Dawn at Anchor Supplies, her team and the guy who organises the 4x4 buggies. My friend I was with bought a 9x9 tent and some other bits from them, we came back to collect it later in the day loaded down with other goodies. They had promised to lend us one of their team to help us carry the tent to the car but the extras we had bought ruled that out. One call on the radio and 5 minutes later had us in a buggy being driven right to my car by a very nice guy who even helped us load and unload, it made our day so much easier, we put the tent up the following day to check it and it exceeded expectations. Thank you. :D

Edited by w896andy

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Pretty much every one I spoke to throughout the week - be it re-enactors, MV owners or even traders - felt the new owners were swinging the focus of the show too far away from being an MV and Living History show that the public come and enjoy to a county type show where MV's are almost an afterthought. I know the new owner is into running gun shows - but did we really need adverts for such shows everywhere?? I did speak to someone from the original organisers way back when the show started whilst up at the armourers on the Tuesday and he was less than happy at what had been done and the reactions he'd been getting from everyone on the military side.

 

Vlaanderen - its all we can really do. I hope it remains open for us to use. Not as close to home as the Hop Farm but a bit easier to get to - especially when the Militant starts making the run.

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Oh no sad to hear that, sometimes something so simple can cause so much trouble. What career did you have to end in such a quick way.

I like the sound of easy life :D.

 

I was a restoration bricklayer, my easy life was being able to lift 125kg from the floor. That helped with my land rover hobby, same as being able to spend £5000 in a weekend buying parts, land rovers and trailers to bring home.

Right now we scrape to get by and my re education should bring me a decent income. I plan to get my welding degree and then make a living doing welding jobs on vehicles like crossmembers and bigger jobs like custom fuel tanks etc. If I can live from it, it is fine.

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I’ll give my two pennies worth having visited W&P every year for around 15 years, sometimes staying and sometimes as this year only going as a member of the paying public on one day. I very much want this show or another very much like it to survive, I like it, it’s great to see a lot of vehicles and reenactors and see friends all in one place.

 

Additionally as the owner of some larger vehicles and a collector of WW2 ‘stuff’ I feel it’s very important for the European dealers to be there in one place and in large numbers, they give me far more and cheaper purchasing options than some of the very expensive English dealers who I fear are getting unrealistic in some cases. So in my view large numbers of dealers from many countries in one place is the main selling point and the reason for me visiting the show just as much as seeing other vehicles and friends.

 

As has been said vehicle/reenactor numbers are very much down and this will mean a slow death as it feeds the public interest/attendance, revenue for the stall holders and dare I say now revenue for the show organisers. The location is not suitable, it’s near the ferry for the European people which is good but it’s just too far for many on this side of the Channel. It’s clear we all liked the Hop Farm but even that is a bit too far, it needs to be nearer to say Newbury, near enough for the European people but also much easier for vehicle owners in the Midlands/North of the UK.

 

Many of the trade stands were very unhappy with numerous things as I heard negative comments from more than ever previously, if they keep getting more cost, less flexibility and it gets more difficult they will stop coming.

 

The toilets have been mentioned, they were terrible last year and as bad this year. It’s simple, if I can’t wash and go to the toilet how can I stay for more than a day, £10 or no £10.

 

Regarding the not opening on Sunday and not being able to leave when you wish, I understand why they have been bought in but they will reduce revenue through the gate and vehicles attending. It’s simple it doesn’t fit people’s lives or time available to attend to be forced into one option each (Saturday for the public and 5 days for Exhibitors) we do this for a hobby not as a commercial business.

 

I’m working on my Autocar U8144 currently, it maybe ready for next year (or not ?) it’s rare as most will know and with its trailer should hopefully make an exhibit that I hope will be of interest. So the question is what’s going to tempt me to drive it all the way from Somerset and pay for the privilege in both fuel and entry fee and toilets, sorry currently it’s not what I saw this year, I can go to many more local shows for the cost of this one.

 

I would really, really like to be wrong/have my view changed and see this show prosper and I will be the first person to commit to going but I can realistically only see giving it one more year as a day visitor, it’s a lot more realistic.

 

I’m sorry but the new owner does need to rethink his business plan, the balance of trade, vehicles, reenactors and location is delicate and you will never keep everybody happy, but if you just move toward more profit then these will all fall away in turn and it will fail.

 

Lastly to end on a high I’d like to thank Dawn at Anchor Supplies, her team and the guy who organises the 4x4 buggies. My friend I was with bought a 9x9 tent and some other bits from them, we came back to collect it later in the day loaded down with other goodies. They had promised to lend us one of their team to help us carry the tent to the car but the extras we had bought ruled that out. One call on the radio and 5 minutes later had us in a buggy being driven right to my car by a very nice guy who even helped us load and unload, it made our day so much easier, we put the tent up the following day to check it and it exceeded expectations. Thank you. :D

 

I'm confused, is it the new owners business plan you dont like or the fact that you want it moving nearer to you ?

I think people on the whole do not like change, for years people moaned about toilets,showers at Hop farm, now the show has moved there are other issues. I dont think, any location would be perfect. Its about 140 miles each way for me.

Last year one of our group drove his Scout car with Ben hur trailer 176 miles each way.......he had a great time.

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I'm confused, is it the new owners business plan you dont like or the fact that you want it moving nearer to you ?

I think people on the whole do not like change, for years people moaned about toilets,showers at Hop farm, now the show has moved there are other issues. I dont think, any location would be perfect. Its about 140 miles each way for me.

Last year one of our group drove his Scout car with Ben hur trailer 176 miles each way.......he had a great time.

 

It’s the overall business plan of the new company I think that needs reviewing, it’s an ideal opportunity for them to build it for the future and make changes to resolve issues not all of their own making. It seems to be geared now toward increasing costs and decreasing flexibility for people and traders attending. As I mentioned it’s always going to be a fine balance but the current approach appears to have tipped this balance meaning that already vehicle numbers, reenactor numbers, public numbers and trader’s numbers are all down some by a big margin. That’s the first thing that needs to be addressed.

 

As you say people don’t like change and the commercialisation into other areas (as others have commented) of what started as a hobby show plus the need for the new owners to make a return on investment will be difficult enough without the other issues.

 

As somebody who runs my own business in my humble opinion the warning signs are there in addition to the as you say normal people moaning. You are right people have always moaned but the show expanded, now people are moaning for slightly different reasons and its contracting at a large rate currently as people just stop coming. I agree with the point made by others regarding the toilets, as you say they have never been good, but now we pay £10 and they are still not good, so people will just look at it as the new owners making a return on their investment and not improving things.

 

Regarding moving it closer to me, that’s not my point, the Hop Farm site was already not ideal for public, exhibitors and traders but it’s been moved further away again now from its core customers to the side of the M20 where Operation Stack last year stopped most of the public attending on the Saturday and the backlogs getting to Dover this year will have put people off (actual or perceived), that’s not the new peoples fault of course but it’s just not in the right place.

 

Either move it to Northern France or further inland in the UK where people as I mentioned coming from the Midlands and the North (not Somerset!) don’t have to come around London (slow classic vehicles on the M25 are not good !!). I mentioned Newbury only in as much as it allows people to drive their vehicles on A roads avoiding motorways and the European people to still get there quickly via the M20/25/4 plus gives you a much larger public ‘pull’ for day attendance from four directions. The current location serves nobody other than the few local people and has very unreliable access.

 

We all in this hobby have to help stop the current rot (hence us all giving feedback) or find another show that gives us an equal experience in size and attractions. The alternative is that W&P goes from being ‘our’ national show and the largest in Europe to being just another local county show, which would be a loss for us all.

Edited by w896andy

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I spend a full week at the show and the toilets were not that bad, other than that they could have emptied the dixies a bit more often. The toilet trailers were fine though and cleaned regularly during the day. Ofcourse nothing is as good as the throne at home but they are a huge improvement over those at the old site although there will always be room for improvement.

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"The alternative is that W&P goes from being ‘our’ national show and the largest in Europe to being just another local county show, which would be a loss for us all."

I think it is pretty certain that the show is NOT "our" show.......more than ever it is a commercial venture run to make a profit for the operating company. You can hardly expect otherwise in the circumstances. It remains to be seen whether this year's out-turn will prompt the owners to put it back more on the lines we enthusiasts have come to exoect....or, continue to modify it towards something significantly different and maybe more in keeping with other events they run. I would bet on the latter.

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"The alternative is that W&P goes from being ‘our’ national show and the largest in Europe to being just another local county show, which would be a loss for us all."

I think it is pretty certain that the show is NOT "our" show.......more than ever it is a commercial venture run to make a profit for the operating company. You can hardly expect otherwise in the circumstances. It remains to be seen whether this year's out-turn will prompt the owners to put it back more on the lines we enthusiasts have come to exoect....or, continue to modify it towards something significantly different and maybe more in keeping with other events they run. I would bet on the latter.

 

As much as I would love it to be otherwise - I fear you are correct. From day one it seems there has been an undertone that the MV's aren't considered necessary (in a show named WAR and peace???) starting with the comments in the CMV article about MV owners being scroungers for taking their families for a week long holiday and then at the show the almost total lack of interest in anything not WW2.

We can hope that the new owners will take the time to trawl the forums and get some idea of the feedback from those who did attend and make plans to address these concerns for 2017. but again I somehow doubt this will happen either. :(

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Pretty much every one I spoke to throughout the week - be it re-enactors, MV owners or even traders - felt the new owners were swinging the focus of the show too far away from being an MV and Living History show that the public come and enjoy to a county type show where MV's are almost an afterthought. I know the new owner is into running gun shows - but did we really need adverts for such shows everywhere?? I did speak to someone from the original organisers way back when the show started whilst up at the armourers on the Tuesday and he was less than happy at what had been done and the reactions he'd been getting from everyone on the military side.

 

Vlaanderen - its all we can really do. I hope it remains open for us to use. Not as close to home as the Hop Farm but a bit easier to get to - especially when the Militant starts making the run.

 

Hi Neil,

 

Many thanks for your comments, for me it is a 650 mile round trip, part of the fun of the "Old" W&P at the Hop Farm.

 

Speculation, rumours, "I've heard from someone" and the like always happens every year, yet delving into parish rights and planning permission applications can bring knowledge.

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Great to see this thread developing into a more balanced discussion - especially given the endless rumours/second-hand stories circulated before the event.

 

From our perspective (myself and the family), we really enjoyed the show this year. The improvements in booking-in formalities, facilities management (toilets / showers / dust suppression / site bus / catering etc) were most welcome which, coupled with the chilled atmosphere made for a great environment to meet our many existing (and some new) UK and European friends.

 

Without repeating the issues already raised, I just wanted to reiterate two aspects of the show of greart interest to me:

 

Overseas Visitors - One aspect I have not seen raised to any great extent is the significant number of European visitors / re--enactors / exhibitors / traders who grace the show - without who`s numbers, the event would not have swelled to its current size and diversity. I have learnt from my German, Dutch and Belgian friends that this years event did not coincide with Continental school holidays which, coupled with memories of last year`s `Operation Stack` undoubtedly led to a reduction in attendences. Despite this, the number of different languages heard around the show was impressive ! I sincerely hope the organisers remain mindful of this when planning both the future timing and location of the show.

 

Post-War interests - I would also urge that we do not overlook Post-War vehicles / re-enacting. Looking across the show fields over the years, the trend in collecting these vehicles - either out of choice , practicality or affordability is clearly visible, with the total numbers often exceeding WW2 exhibits. IMHO profit-making show organisers planning to exclude / marginalise these interests do-so at their financial peril !

 

 

Thats all for now, except to congratulate the organisers on a good first-attempt at W&P. However, I would also urge them to address at least some of the more pressing observations made in this thread if the decline of the show is to be avoided.

 

Hope to meet at least some of you next year (event permitting !)

 

Cheers

 

Steve 82

Edited by Steve 82

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I was told by officials that next year's show will be moved back by 1 week to early August as they recognized they made a mistake with planning regarding the beginning of the school holidays this year.

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There is scope for all kinds of shows. Being a WW2 vehicle-centric type I like Militracks in The Netherlands, something like that both for Axis and Allied vehicles in the UK would be great. W&PR isn't that show, it used to be that way in the 90's, but not now. Perhaps the Military World show will be a new start, back to basics perhaps.

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"The alternative is that W&P goes from being ‘our’ national show and the largest in Europe to being just another local county show, which would be a loss for us all."

I think it is pretty certain that the show is NOT "our" show.......more than ever it is a commercial venture run to make a profit for the operating company. You can hardly expect otherwise in the circumstances. It remains to be seen whether this year's out-turn will prompt the owners to put it back more on the lines we enthusiasts have come to exoect....or, continue to modify it towards something significantly different and maybe more in keeping with other events they run. I would bet on the latter.

 

I fear you may have some valid points there, perhaps its taking a differing direction and we should look for an alternative. As has been said by another here maybe time for back to basics, a nice big show with people, reenactors, vehicles, stalls and traders, all military and from all over Europe run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.

 

Perhaps we should start a new one, perhaps our illustrious forum leader Jack would like to pick up the gauntlet. Jack, for example you could ‘just’ bolt it onto A&E next year, extend Broadmayne D5 field a little (ok a lot), charge the public to get in. Its near to Southampton for the European people and easy to get to from the North, I’ll organise the cake stall, what do you think, it shouldn’t be too much extra work for you, Jim & the team ?? (Grabs coat and runs for exit). :beatenup:

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What put me off WPR this year was the statement on the online booking that said its a Tuesday to Saturday show so if you cannot be there fir that period don't bother booking. I have since read that some members left early but did anyone arrive a day or more late and get in?

 

Also as for enthusiasts doing their own thing I wonder what the cost of the public liability insurance would be for a 3,000 vehicle show?

 

Perhaps a bit of crowd funding to set up a show might help?

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What put me off WPR this year was the statement on the online booking that said its a Tuesday to Saturday show so if you cannot be there fir that period don't bother booking. I have since read that some members left early but did anyone arrive a day or more late and get in?

 

I saw a QL arrive late and get directed into the public parking.

 

That said there were some major differences in behaviour between different stewards at the front, ranging from the awesomely helpful and enthusiastic to the downright nasty. I'm not going to dwell on that one too much, except to say that the vast majority of staff were awesome, but the actions of one or two bad eggs can have a disproportionate impact on the general feel and enjoyment of the show, particularly when they're in such an important and prominant position interacting with show goers.

 

That's probably one to keep in mind if the organisers want to preserve a fun festival-like atmosphere for next year, and hopefully attract some repeat business.

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If you mean arriving late time-wise, I think you couldn't enter the grounds with a vehicle after 10am when the show opened for public (as it always has been) and had to wait till after 5pm to get it from the public parking. As for arriving on a later date, I heard a few people arrived & entered vehicles as late as Saturday morning. I don't mind that you're requested to stay longer than 1-2 days if possible when registering but obviously the statement on the website should have been worded in a different way. Afterall, 'Ces't la ton qui fait la musique' ('it's the tone that sets the music').

 

It also seems a lot of the previous staff weren't called upon this year, and apparently the new owner took some of his own people with him. These people probably are experienced managing (commercial) country/shooting shows but might be unfamiliar with the unique MV-scene & atmosphere.

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It also seems a lot of the previous staff weren't called upon this year, and apparently the new owner took some of his own people with him. These people probably are experienced managing (commercial) country/shooting shows but might be unfamiliar with the unique MV-scene & atmosphere.

 

I know what you mean, but I don't think that was it. Like I said, most of the stewards and staff were awesome and great, whether experienced in the show or not.

Edited by Lauren Child

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What put me off WPR this year was the statement on the online booking that said its a Tuesday to Saturday show so if you cannot be there fir that period don't bother booking. I have since read that some members left early but did anyone arrive a day or more late and get in?

 

Also as for enthusiasts doing their own thing I wonder what the cost of the public liability insurance would be for a 3,000 vehicle show?

 

Perhaps a bit of crowd funding to set up a show might help?

 

We were there from Sunday to Sunday, we could drive around the site even through the arena most of the time, had no problem going in or out of the site at any time, saw plenty of MVs arriving most days and getting in ok, and as to having to stay untill Sunday morning a lot of MVs left on Saturday evening without any problems, of course I do think that the organisers did go over the top with there statement about don't bother booking if you can't stop while Sunday

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I arrived Tuesday mid afternoon and was waved through to booking in.

 

I found all the stewards very helpful and found the toilets and showers to be ok.

 

I feel the new parking and exit arrangement would have been in crisis had it rained

 

I enjoyed the show.

 

I confess that I only went this year to form my own opinion on how it would turn out and in all fairness I haven't seen read or heard any comments that weren't put forward for any other year.

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Well if there is a next year show at WPR, if the web site still says don't bother booking if you cannot come for the full 5 days, I won't risk driving 100 miles just to get turned away

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Well if there is a next year show at WPR, if the web site still says don't bother booking if you cannot come for the full 5 days, I won't risk driving 100 miles just to get turned away

 

Negative vibes man, negative vibes.........:cool:

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