Jump to content
x2onion

Has anyone seen the Eurodeacs yet?

Recommended Posts

So, I cracked open the latest catalogue from one of the retailers to find they had a load of product apparently up to Euro standard. This included various Cat A, which I thought was verboten by Euro-standards (to commoners, anyway). As I'm still recovering from the last metal I purchased (pre deadline, by ~30 mins) I won't be obtaining any more for a while, but I'd really like to see what they look like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, I cracked open the latest catalogue from one of the retailers to find they had a load of product apparently up to Euro standard. This included various Cat A, which I thought was verboten by Euro-standards (to commoners, anyway). As I'm still recovering from the last metal I purchased (pre deadline, by ~30 mins) I won't be obtaining any more for a while, but I'd really like to see what they look like.

 

Haven't seen a physical one yet - but the Home Office have finally got off their lazy arses and issued the standards required now:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/deactivated-firearms-implementing-regulation-eu-20152403

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the link, it looks as if we still have UK-specific operations that have to be carried out beside the EU mandated ones. I thought the standard was supposed to be universal? I like the way barrels only have to be filled 2/3 of their length, but that's about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just paperweight now. Glad all mine are early deacs, full strip, removable barrels and even chamber rounds in some! We have the most stringent deac laws in Europe, they should just follow our specs. I go Arnhem every year, take much Bren no problems. I see some of the weapons the Dutch and Germans take, poor sods. As for the Poles, a different kettle of fish, let's say!😎

I've always said it, that it's easier to actually make your own firearm than 're-activate a deac. Look at the Sten, I could knock one up in a couple days. Just basic machine work.

A South African friend was telling me as kids they made 12 bore shotguns from pieces of threaded steel tube, and that was for fun!

Why go to bother of reactivating when they are readily available on the market in Eastern Europe. $300 gets you an AK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why go to bother of reactivating when they are readily available on the market in Eastern Europe. $300 gets you an AK.

 

That's the root of the problem, though, isn't it? One of the AK-derivatives used in the Charlie Hebdo shootings WAS apparently bought as an Eastern European de-ac & then re-activated quite easily...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's the root of the problem, though, isn't it? One of the AK-derivatives used in the Charlie Hebdo shootings WAS apparently bought as an Eastern European de-ac & then re-activated quite easily...

 

By Western standards the Hebdo weapons were not deacs - they were Slovakian and just had pinned barrels to allow blanks to be used for film work I forget the description now - but "sonic rifles" keeps coming to mind.

The media, not being ones to allow truth to come before a good story, latched onto the word deactivated without bothering to research what the term actually meant in most Western countries and the UK in particular. Had they bothered to do their research properly all would have been made plain to the public.

 

<snip> We have the most stringent deac laws in Europe, they should just follow our specs. I go Arnhem every year, take much Bren no problems. </snip>

 

Sadly it seems you will not be taking a Bren any more unless it is the latest EU all welded spec. The WW1 guys going over to the Somme cannot take their weapons - the Home Office are reported to have refused to grant them an exemption for the Somme 100th events.

Edited by ArtistsRifles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From the link, it looks as if we still have UK-specific operations that have to be carried out beside the EU mandated ones. I thought the standard was supposed to be universal? I like the way barrels only have to be filled 2/3 of their length, but that's about it.

 

I was surprised too, but there's nothing to stop member states imposing restrictions above the common standard.

 

Note to all - can we PLEASE keep the politics out of this thread? :-(

 

Andy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Note to all - can we PLEASE keep the politics out of this thread? :-(Andy

 

Yeah, there's enough to worry about as it is. It looks like bolts have to be welded now too. Whilst SMG bolts can still move (never been a fan of fake moving bolts), everything else has to be solid:

 

...a maximum of 50% of the bolt/bolt carrier may be retained to restore the external appearance...They must be securely welded in place with substantial or continuous runs of weld.

Also mags:

 

Weld the magazine with spots on the frame or the handle, depending on type of arm to prevent removing the magazine... It is acceptable to modify a magazine well by welding a pin that would prevent the insertion of an unmodified magazine yet would allow an empty, slotted magazine to be fitted

 

And here's the kicker:

If the magazine is missing, place spots of weld in the magazine location or fix a lock to permanently prevent the insertion of a magazine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the correction Mike. Leaving the bulk of the politics aside it is grossly unfair that our standards have had to be replaced with the drivel currently published by the Home Office - BEFORE the EU has even reviewed the Rapportuers papers and voted on the proposals. As has been stated elsewhere - both the Proof Houses and NABIS have said these new standards are unworkable as regards certification unless the Proof Houses actually carries out the deactivation work - and that ain't gonna happen!!

 

As regards the magazines the question no one has answered yet is how the hell do you weld polymer magazines into steel receivers?? For starters the AK range uses both Bakelite and Polymer magazines - neither of which are weldable!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote=ArtistsRifles;469537

 

As regards the magazines the question no one has answered yet is how the hell do you weld polymer magazines into steel receivers?? For starters the AK range uses both Bakelite and Polymer magazines - neither of which are weldable!

 

I think the short answer to that will be no mag fitted and spots of weld on the receiver to prevent fitting of said item.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The spec says something about using araldite/resin to bond non-metallic components. This isn't ideal from a removability perspective, but I don't think removability was first on their minds. What if the bond failed after x years, and the component came loose? Alternatively, I suppose one could fix a pin from one side of the mag housing to the other, through the (fitted) mag. If a slot was cut through the mag, the mag could be removed and replaced. This would ensure non-slotted mags could not be fitted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the short answer to that will be no mag fitted and spots of weld on the receiver to prevent fitting of said item.

 

 

No, I have been in conversation with the London Proofhouse Proofmaster on this.

He is more than Happy to have polymer Magazines glued in place. With a good propriatry adhesive such as Araldite or similar.

 

x2Onion has also stated what they will also allow, If a slot is cut high up at the front & rear of a magazine. say 1/2" for an example.

Then the grip/ magazine housing in any given class of FORMER Firearm. Drilled with a hole the same size as the slot at the front & rear. Slightly countersink either hole, fit a steel pin the same size as the hole. & add a small blob of Weld deposit on each end of the pin heads. Dress down to profile, give a small blob of paint to prevent rust. Or alternatively blue the areas.

 

Then, the magazine CAN be removed & refitted freely, but an unmodified magazine cannot.

You can also retain the original spring & Magazine follower as well. As these will be needed to keep pressure on the mag bottom plate. To prevent said plate from falling off!

 

The follower will obviously be pushed down from the pin when inserted into the DEACT. But when the mag is removed, to all intents & purposes. It will look exactly like a 'normal' magazine in function. & you will only see the small slot, upon close inspection.

 

Interesting to see the Home Office specs are listed as GUIDELINES. And NOT Law/Definitive requirement!.............

 

Appologies for any misinterpretation of my Previous post. As some deemed it too political, it was NOT meant in that way.

But if anyone is under the impression,

Edited by Marmite!!
Politics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rather than complain, rather than pretend that EU people are different people from us, why not do the simple thing and follow the due process of EU law complaints? Finding that kind of stuff is what Google and similar are for. Following that route is partly what being a citizen is about.

 

I would do it myself, but these days I find firearms only mildly interesting; however I would sign an EU e-petition thingy if someone arranged one.

 

trevor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really confused (did someone say not for the first time!). Does this standard apply to all deacts or just automatic weapons? I thought it was just for automatics?

Rick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The standard applies to everything. Interestingly, there is some recent semi-related info about how HO guidance is not (currently) statutory, and can be interpreted differently as a result. The response to a petition, here:

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/127045?reveal_response=yes

 

about the Police and Crime bill, here:

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2016-2017/0003/cbill_2016-20170003_en_12.htm#pt6-l1g107

 

admits the current guidance has no legal basis. On the one hand, the effort to create a black-and-white legally-defined system is long overdue, but the current climate of Only-Terrorists-Have-Guns isn't giving me much hope of a workable solution.

 

I'm hoping the backlash from all this will help to create legitimate grounds for people to be granted s1/s5 certs to have the real thing, seeing as we're no longer allowed broken ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

still requires magazines to be welded in i see! even for pistols. what a mess! EU specs are a farce when you look at the whole reason we are in this mess. do you think the rest of europe will follow EU specs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That article says the Dutch are going to stop people owning replica historic guns, without a licence I assume. It doesn't say anything about banning the ownership of the real thing. This is an interesting issue though, there's been even less info about whether the UK wants to licence the ownership of s58 obsolete cal for non-shooters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That article says the Dutch are going to stop people owning replica historic guns, without a licence I assume. It doesn't say anything about banning the ownership of the real thing. This is an interesting issue though, there's been even less info about whether the UK wants to licence the ownership of s58 obsolete cal for non-shooters.

 

Functioning replicas of historic guns were never allowed in The Netherlands unless on permit, so nothing new there. As far as I know original historic guns were - and still are - allowed without permit. The reason is they assume the only reason you would get a functioning replica is to shoot it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Functioning replicas of historic guns were never allowed in The Netherlands unless on permit, so nothing new there. As far as I know original historic guns were - and still are - allowed without permit. The reason is they assume the only reason you would get a functioning replica is to shoot it.

 

That is sensible and logical in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is, of course, a world of difference between "functioning replica" and "replica" and it wasn't clear which the article was referring to. Am I correct in thinking that the Dutch don't even allow non-functioning replica weapons?

 

Andy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is, of course, a world of difference between "functioning replica" and "replica" and it wasn't clear which the article was referring to. Am I correct in thinking that the Dutch don't even allow non-functioning replica weapons?

 

Andy

 

Non-firing replicas of what I would call 'historic pirate weapons' (flintlock-type) are no problem, but replicas of more 'modern' weapons are not allowed in any form, and that will probably stay so in the future. So Denix Lugers, MP40's, Enfields, Garands, AK47's etc. are strictly not allowed in The Netherlands. I think you can qualify any replica of a weapon that shoots a centrefire cartridge(?) as illegal here.

 

Airsoft weapons are allowed, but only within strict rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...