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Tamber

It's here! (Bedford RL)

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OK - of course Richard is correct! The hub is different to M Series.

 

This pic of yours shows two of the drain holes - reckon there'll be five, one on every other raised rib.

 

RL Rear Hub.jpg

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OK - of course Richard is correct! The hub is different to M Series.

 

This pic of yours shows two of the drain holes - reckon there'll be five, one on every other raised rib.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]120518[/ATTACH]

 

Ah-ha! Now I know what I'm looking for, I'll make a note to ensure they're clear next time I have that off. :)

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Thanks Tony, thought I was not dreaming that !

As you can see, a bit of oil coming out and a lot of dust and dirt soon accumulates around the hole then you have trouble, pays to prod them out regularly with a bit of wire or similar.

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Nothing major today.

 

sidelight.jpg

 

One sidelight! :D

 

The wires for the other side, and the tail lights, are all connected up at the fusebox end.

Tail light wires are coiled up behind the cab, waiting on me to clean & paint the chassis as well as actually fit some rear lights. O/S sidelight wire is coiled up and is waiting for me to pull it around and connect it to the other sidelight.

 

moar-light.jpg

 

Doesn't look so bad with the headlights on, eh? Once I've run all the wires, I think I'm going to add an extra plug/socket to disconnect the loom where it exits the cab; so the cab could be pulled off without having to cut the loom.

 

(No, there's not much of a plan as such; it just evolves as it goes... :D )

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The rear wiring loom should join the cab at a junction behind the radiator grille near the chassis on the passenger side . the screws on the terminal block normally come undone ok.

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The rear wiring loom should join the cab at a junction behind the radiator grille near the chassis on the passenger side . the screws on the terminal block normally come undone ok.

 

There's near enough nothing left of the original wiring in there, by this point; I think the majority of it is just stubs left connected to things so I can see where I need to connect new wires to. I showed no mercy to what was left of the original loom; which had suffered from "commercial-vehicle"-itis, as well as having the majority of the insulation crumble to nothing over the years.

 

So, instead, it's all gone; and I'm wiring it up using modern wire, relays, banks of fuses, and -- where I'm going to need them -- modern weather-proof connectors. Once all the wires are run the way I want them to go, I'm going to loom them up so they won't be as visible as they are at present; and they'll be better protected.

 

As an aside, I would like to note that -- if one is so inclined -- it is easy to get braided cable (braid & lacquer over modern PVC insulation) in all the colours one should need in order to build a new loom that is a faithful reproduction of the original. Which is great, but it's not the route I wanted to go on this truck.

Edited by Tamber
Removing a splat, for a footnote I didn't write. :D

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Very very minor update; since the carb rebuild, I've been fighting a few vacuum leaks, which I think I've mostly nailed down now. Though, with typical good timing, I appear to have run out of fuel; thankfully whilst parked up, but it's annoying when it happens part-way through trying to make sure you've strangled all the vacuum leaks, check timing, etc. :D

 

The suspicious part of me suspects someone's siphoning fuel out of the tank. This remains to be seen, however. Probably going to bump a better filler-cap further up the priority list, just to make myself feel better. :/

 

(And then it'll turn out that nobody's siphoning it, I'm just burning through it that quickly... :D I don't think I am, though; at the rate it seems to be 'evaporating', I'd have to be pumping liquid fuel out of the tailpipe...)

 

Anyway! Onto the current minor headache, timing. Following a bit of advice that "most carburettor problems are actually ignition problems", I thought I'd check where the timing actually was.

 

I located the markers on the flywheel, cleaned them up and added a few dabs' worth of white paint marker just to make them even more visible. (And I know the clutch is worn out! Something else that needs changing...)

 

oHAl9lC.jpg

 

Except, because it's never that easy, it's not showing up in the timing aperture on the clutch housing; nor is it showing up on the underside, which was only slightly frustrating considering the amount of faffing I had to do to get my timing light under the truck and pointed in roughly the right direction.

 

(I extended the battery leads for it, but apparently the manufacturer clearly neglected the heavier Bedford segment of the market by not putting on enough lead on the pickup to be able to reach the underside of the flywheel from the No. 1 plug lead. For shame! :D)

 

So I may, or may not, have timing that is very far from what it should be; clearly, I need to do a little debugging. Plan of attack, so far is as follows:

  1. Check TDC No.1 cylinder by hand. Make sure it lines up with the mark it is supposed to. (The U.C. one, I believe.) If not, then I'll worry just a little bit, then re-mark the flywheel to give me a TDC mark I can rely on.
  2. Clean, inspect, and lubricate the distributor, points, etc. I'll probably remove the distributor to check it; that way I can check it a bit more thoroughly. I've seen mention about the distributor housing becoming worn and causing strangeness. I believe the phrase used was "Magical mystery points gap". It'd be just my luck... :rotfl:
  3. Check that the points are opening at the correct point in time. This should be the steel ball, if the U.C. mark is correct, which would give about 5°BTDC.
  4. Reconnect the vacuum advance. I have some nice 3/16 vacuum line, but as is typical, it's probably too short. We'll see. I can always buy more...

 

In other, very very belated news; my axle seals turned up before Christmas. They look very nice; and are modern lip seals, as opposed to the leather seals that are currently in the axles. Hopefully the surface the seal rides on is smooth enough not to chew the new seals to bits, when I fit them; but I didn't detect any nastiness when I pulled it apart, so I should be okay. (Paging the dread Murphy, Murphy to the RL...)

 

And as the days start to get longer, I'm looking forward to carrying on grinding my way through the long list of stuff I have to do. ("And there was much rejoicing...") I know I've not being doing much updating recently; when the days are so short and cold, and the wind seems to be so determined to take strips out of ye, it's hard to gather the enthusiasm. :cry: But, I suppose that's what makes it a hobby, not a job...

Edited by Tamber
note about clutch. :D

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Hi Tamber, glad to hear you're making progress.

 

The U|C mark is TDC, the ball is the timing mark.

 

It could be that it's been timed to 6 instead of 1 - you can check by popping the distributor cap off and checking what cylinder the rotor is pointing to when you have it on the timing mark.

 

You can set the timing static to see what's going on, and if needs be pull the rocker cover off to check which cylinder is on compression (though that will mean buying a new rocker cover gasket)

 

My experience is that the Lucas distributor in early engines is more reliable than the Delco distributor in later vehicles. The Delco is prone to wear in bushes or cam lobes causing variable dwell (points gap). However, they can be made to run well even with worn distributors.

 

If you have been doing a lot of idling and moving around in low gear cold they do go through fuel very quickly...

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Hi Tamber, glad to hear you're making progress.

 

The U|C mark is TDC, the ball is the timing mark.

 

h'okay, that tallies up with what I expected from the service manuals, etc. (When I first saw the U.C. mark, I was very confused; then I went looking in the manual for the timing, saw "before U.C." and was enlightened.)

 

 

It could be that it's been timed to 6 instead of 1 - you can check by popping the distributor cap off and checking what cylinder the rotor is pointing to when you have it on the timing mark.

 

You can set the timing static to see what's going on, and if needs be pull the rocker cover off to check which cylinder is on compression (though that will mean buying a new rocker cover gasket)

 

Timed to 6 would be a little strange, to me, though I guess it would make sense in that you'd need a shorter timing light cable... :D

 

 

My experience is that the Lucas distributor in early engines is more reliable than the Delco distributor in later vehicles. The Delco is prone to wear in bushes or cam lobes causing variable dwell (points gap). However, they can be made to run well even with worn distributors.

 

If you have been doing a lot of idling and moving around in low gear cold they do go through fuel very quickly...

 

That's reassuring to hear; though I think I'll still pull the dizzy and check... while I have it out, I might be able to clean it up and find out which one I've actually got. And, yeah, for now, lots of idling and low gear. It just surprised me, because I put 10+ litres in not so long ago, and hadn't thought I'd run it long enough to burn through that...

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Normally lucas dist has cast ally body and delco pressed steel. When using timing light you can use no 1 or 6 ignition lead with the same result as they spark at 360deg of crank rotation to each other.

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Wot 'retriever' says. As the firing order is 1 5 3 6 4 2, 1 and 6 are at TDC at the same time, so it's just a matter of which one's on the compression stroke. Easy for plug leads to be swapped around etc. and not unknown for assembly mistakes to be corrected on the leads, particularly since on some vehicles no. 1 is flywheel end.

 

This is a Delco distributor:

 

Bedford-214cu-in-Petrol-Engine-Delco-D204-Ignition-_57.jpg

 

 

 

This is a Lucas distributor (though I don't think the right one for your vehicle, but similar):

 

Lucas_6_cylinder_distributor.JPG

 

 

The cap clips are one easy way of telling them apart.

 

If you have a dwell meter, setting average dwell not points gap is one way.

Edited by Sean N

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Re your fuel problem.

No use changing the filler cap if a drain plug is handy.

Is a plug fitted?

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Re your fuel problem.

No use changing the filler cap if a drain plug is handy.

Is a plug fitted?

 

Well, at the moment, there isn't really a filler cap. I have a leftover damaged one from a Scania trimmed down and crammed in as a bung to stop rain blowing in.

 

Putting a locking cap on it at least ups the difficulty from "yank the bung out of the filler neck and stick a hose in" to "actually has to remember to bring a spanner". On a related note, it makes me boggle is when work builds an appendage onto the side of a tipper body that covers the filler-cap, to prevent it from being accessed while the body is fully lowered; but, again, there's a drain plug on the bottom of the tank... Ah well, as long as it makes it look more secure than the next truck along, I guess. :)

 

Wot 'retriever' says. As the firing order is 1 3 5 6 4 2, 1 and 6 are at TDC at the same time, so it's just a matter of which one's on the compression stroke. Easy for plug leads to be swapped around etc. and not unknown for assembly mistakes to be corrected on the leads, particularly since on some vehicles no. 1 is flywheel end.

 

 

D'oh, I should've realised the 1 and 6 thing; makes a lot more sense, now. :-D Will try harder next time!

 

 

 

This is a Delco distributor:

 

Bedford-214cu-in-Petrol-Engine-Delco-D204-Ignition-_57.jpg

 

 

 

This is a Lucas distributor (though I don't think the right one for your vehicle, but similar):

 

Lucas_6_cylinder_distributor.JPG

 

 

The cap clips are one easy way of telling them apart.

 

If you have a dwell meter, setting average dwell not points gap is one way.

 

Going off the cap clips, I've got a Delco dizzy; so that's helpful, at least I know why none of the Lucas replacement points looked quite right! :D New points ordered, now I know which ones I need.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a dwell-meter; so I think I'll be sticking to gapping the points for the time being. (I'm putting together a little transistor ignition box for when it's up to running nicely, which should help reduce the point erosion.)

 

Still, onwards and upwards from here, hopefully! :)

Thank-you for the info!

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I have converted all my vehicles to electronic ignition. On the bedfords I bought a 6 cylinder triumph distributor off ebay already fitted with electronic ignition about £60 you just have to fit the dog off your old distributor. worked great for years. Starts and idles better and no adjusting, uses same coil just make sure the wires go on the coil correctly. try ebay no 170830460385

Edited by retriever

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If using a timing light it may be worth looking up the advance characteristics as on some engines the advance starts at an engine speed below idle and you will get a false reading. Also remember to disconnect the vacuum advance diaphragm.

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I have converted all my vehicles to electronic ignition. On the bedfords I bought a 6 cylinder triumph distributor off ebay already fitted with electronic ignition about £60 you just have to fit the dog off your old distributor. worked great for years. Starts and idles better and no adjusting, uses same coil just make sure the wires go on the coil correctly. try ebay no 170830460385

 

Definitely an option to consider! (I must admit, I am half-considering the heretical option of fitting a diesel, once it's on the road. :blush: We shall see. If I do, it will be a sympathetic swap, so I could put the 300 petrol back in if desired.)

 

For now, though, I'm building up the little transistor ignition thing; for the sake of a few pounds' worth of parts, and some time, it's at least worth trying. :)

 

If using a timing light it may be worth looking up the advance characteristics as on some engines the advance starts at an engine speed below idle and you will get a false reading. Also remember to disconnect the vacuum advance diaphragm.

 

Hm. That could make things a little bit awkward! Definitely learning as I go, here.

 

Also, the vacuum advance is disconnected for now (and the vacuum port blocked with a gauge. I didn't have a 1/4BSP plug to hand. :D); but I don't think it worked when it was previously, since the old hard-line for the advance was fairly manky and kinked... which is why I've got some new braided rubber hose to replace it with.

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The factory method for setting the timing is using a light. I'm pretty sure (without looking it up) that the advance curves don't start until above idle so you're OK to time using a light, though blanking the vacuum off never hurts. If you're unsure, time it static.

 

You can fit a 330 diesel almost as a straight swap, and they were a factory option for civilian models. Plenty of other engines will fit, but with varying degrees of modification needed. That 300 petrol is such a lovely engine though...

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Very heavy on petrol and exhaust valves in my experience. Civy Options if I remember correctly Bedford 330/330 and the best Leyland 350 especially with a Leyland box. I skated over the Perkins R6 not one of my favourate engines, good on fuel because it was dinner time before you got them started if it was not midsummer. Take off manifold induction pipe find piece of wire and wrap a piece of rag at one end dip in diesel light then hold over induction and turn key with luck it would fire. No one ever had Ki gas.

Edited by john1950
additions

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Well, she runs again!

 

Took it to TDC on No. 1, and marked the flywheel against the notch in the viewing window. It looks like #1TDC is about 10~15 degrees* after the U.C. marking on the flywheel.

 

K593sOW.jpg

 

* (Total wild-ass guess. not measured it to find out. It's definitely after, though.)

 

Distributor cap was off while I was doing this, to check that I was definitely coming up on the compression stroke for #1. (Didn't want to take the rocker-cover off and have to re-seal it.)

 

Well, TDC found and marked, next step was cleaning and re-lubricating the dizzy; after-all, I had the cover off already.

 

NFg11T5.jpg

 

Lots of scraping and picking flakes of trash out of it, and plenty of WD40 later, it was clean; I fitted and gapped the new points... and gave it a try with only the coil lead hooked up.

 

Nice enough spark from the coil, but ...SPARKS AT THE POINTS?! Apparently my condenser wasn't making good enough contact, so I checked the old points and sure enough, great big blast marks on them. :shocked: Wonder if that might be partly responsible for it not running very well? :-D

 

 

Old Points

 

 

1ZFsJCn.jpg?2

 

75CECdb.jpg?1

 

Now, both the modern replacement condensers I got for this -- one that I got a while back, and one that I got along with the new points -- were physically larger than the one that originally came out; so they won't go back in without fouling the points cam.

 

The way I got around this is... well, it's a bit rough. :embarrassed:

 

I filed a slot in the bottom edge of the dizzy cap to provide clearance for a wire, connected the condenser up and then wedged it between the body of the dizzy and the block to get a ground. Obviously this made good contact at the time, but slowly oxidised until it couldn't make a circuit any more, taking the condenser out of the equation... which results in destroyed points fairly quickly. :-X

 

Well, I've gone one step better, this time; I connected a wire between the body of the condenser and the screw that the condenser would originally have been retained by. This way, it'll make much better contact for longer.

 

The old points, er... kinda cleaned up, but the blast marks were deep, so I had to take a lot off to get them to clean up. Don't think I'll keep hold of them for anything. Hopefully the improved condenser connection should keep the new points alive for longer.

 

Anyway, back to my progress today…

 

Once I found I had a nice spark from the coil, and no sparking at the points, I refitted the cap, plugs, and leads; put the fuse for the fuel-pump back in, went and got my little hand transfer pump for putting some more fuel from the jerry-can into the truck's tank...

 

Only to find out the pump was no more. Apparently the internals had become discombobulated; and it was no good at transferring anything. :mad: Shame, because it was so useful up until that point. Tried siphoning fuel out of the can into the tank, and achieved nothing more than splashing petrol over myself.

 

Had to resort to pulling the hose from the tank to drop it into the can, which worked for just long enough to get sufficient fuel into the carb that I could start the truck and run it for a bit.

 

I still haven't checked the timing, since I need to finish marking up the flywheel, and it was pitch black by the time I finished at about 6pm. I started work on the truck today at quarter to four. (Would've started earlier, but I got suddenly lumped with waiting for an ISP tech to turn up...)

 

An hour later, I'd lost enough light that I was having to work by torchlight. Finally finished up with a running truck, with near enough my whole body numb from cold and being piled up in the driver's footwell to work on the dizzy. :shake:

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Rasm-frasm. Clearly, I jinxed myself. Doesn't want to start, now, and when it does start; it only runs with throttle at least halfway open, or it just ... slows... and... sputters... .... to a halt.

 

Oh, and if I keep the throttle held open so it runs, eventually it scares the bejeezus out of me with an almighty bang from the tailpipe, and then usually stops anyway. :mad:

 

I will get to the bottom of this. Eventually. (Deep breaths. Caaaaalm.)

 

EDIT: It'll probably turn out I've kinked a fuel hose, or something; so it'll get enough fuel through to start occasionally, but not enough to run. We'll see.

Edited by Tamber

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Took it to TDC on No. 1, and marked the flywheel against the notch in the viewing window. It looks like #1TDC is about 10~15 degrees* after the U.C. marking on the flywheel. * (Total wild-ass guess. not measured it to find out. It's definitely after, though.)

 

Tamber, I'm not sure I believe this. How are you determining TDC? The flywheel is held on by six bolts, so assuming the flywheel was correct originally and it's not on correctly it must be at least 60 degrees out if it's out at all. Moreover, if I remember correctly there are also two dowels, which would mean even if the dowels are the same and equally spaced, it can only be right or 180 out.

 

 

Distributor cap was off while I was doing this, to check that I was definitely coming up on the compression stroke for #1. (Didn't want to take the rocker-cover off and have to re-seal it.)

 

Not wanting to teach you to suck eggs, but you can also insert a plug loosely or put a thumb over the hole while you (get a mate to) turn the engine so you can hear or feel it compressing.

 

 

Now, both the modern replacement condensers I got for this -- one that I got a while back, and one that I got along with the new points -- were physically larger than the one that originally came out; so they won't go back in without fouling the points cam.

 

It's a long while since I fitted a condenser to a Delco distributor, but if I recall correctly the condenser will slide in its clamp, and if it's in the wrong position it will foul. I may be misremembering though, or that may not be the problem.

 

 

Rasm-frasm. Clearly, I jinxed myself. Doesn't want to start, now, and when it does start; it only runs with throttle at least halfway open, or it just ... slows... and... sputters... .... to a halt. Oh, and if I keep the throttle held open so it runs, eventually it scares the bejeezus out of me with an almighty bang from the tailpipe, and then usually stops anyway.

 

Timing wrong ... ?

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Tamber, I'm not sure I believe this. How are you determining TDC? The flywheel is held on by six bolts, so assuming the flywheel was correct originally and it's not on correctly it must be at least 60 degrees out if it's out at all. Moreover, if I remember correctly there are also two dowels, which would mean even if the dowels are the same and equally spaced, it can only be right or 180 out.

 

 

I'm not sure I believe it either, to be honest! A thought had crossed my mind, actually... the timing pointer on the underside of the engine, was it offset to one side slightly -- i.e. not exactly 180° to the timing window at the top? Could it be an older engine, refurbished, and with the flywheel turned 180° to make the timing mark line up with the window in the clutch housing; or am I dreaming up nonsense?

 

I determined TDC by the "see when the piston stops moving"; normally I'd do this with a piece of wire through the spark-plug hole, but since I was laying underneath the truck, turning the engine over by the flywheel, I used my little inspection camera through the spark-plug hole and watched for the piston stopping... splitting the difference between rising and descending.

 

 

Not wanting to teach you to suck eggs, but you can also insert a plug loosely or put a thumb over the hole while you (get a mate to) turn the engine so you can hear or feel it compressing.

 

 

 

That'd be another good way to double-check it, definitely. In my case, I'd have to bump it round with the starter, since my arms aren't long enough to reach the plug-hole while I'm laying under the engine. (Or, alternatively, get some help. These "mate" things sound remarkably handy to have around! :D)

 

 

It's a long while since I fitted a condenser to a Delco distributor, but if I recall correctly the condenser will slide in its clamp, and if it's in the wrong position it will foul. I may be misremembering though, or that may not be the problem.

 

 

To narrow it down, I tried just fitting the clamp alone; and that was getting smacked about by the points cam. I don't think I have the condenser that was on the truck when I got it, any more, but off the top of my head it had a smaller diameter.

 

 

Timing wrong ... ?

 

At this point, you could probably tell me it's running backwards and it wouldn't surprise me all that much. :rotfl:

 

I'm going to check that I don't have a fuel related malady somewhere; it'll probably turn out that all my trouble since I sorted the leaking gasket, is down to me kinking or pinching the fuel hose to the carb, or something. :n00b:

 

I swear, it did run last night...

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<snip>

 

I determined TDC by the "see when the piston stops moving"; normally I'd do this with a piece of wire through the spark-plug hole, but since I was laying underneath the truck, turning the engine over by the flywheel, I used my little inspection camera through the spark-plug hole and watched for the piston stopping... splitting the difference between rising and descending.

 

</snip>

 

Piston hits TDC twice on one cycle on a Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow (or 4 stroke) engine. It rises to TDC on the compression stroke and then again on the exhaust stroke. Apologies if this is a lesson in extracting nutriment from ovoid objects - but you need to make sure you have it set to TDC in the first position!! :-D :-D

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