Sean N Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Yes indeed "An Exhibitors Information Booklet will be included in your Welcome Pack and will include all of the shows rules and regulations, which you are required to abide by. On arrival you will be asked to sign agreeing to the show rules." When you submit an entry you seem to have to be saying you agree to that arrangement. You'd have thought that, if push came to shove and there was a serious issue, any agreement given would be invalidated as the contract would be unfair. Why can they not publish the rules and conditions on the website? Maybe, they aren't away of HMVF....... At present there are just snippets from a magazine, bits from facebook & a motorcycle forum. If you look at the news section on the show website it is blank... None of this says much for their "digital marketing platform" or expertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 We're not exactly making it easy for them to engage on here. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt as it's their first time running it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 We're not exactly making it easy for them to engage on here. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt as it's their first time running it. Perhaps, they could be invited to come on here & comment? They would then be in a position to clarify things. & clear up any points anyone has issues with? Or, left as it is. You/We could be left in a position of cynically thinking. They bought into this show SOLEY as A Money making venture? Or am I being too cynical here?......:undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'm saying the folks taking this show on are a) only human like the rest of us, and b) doing the show for the first time (albeit with sone experience of other shows). If I saw a thread like this I'd run a mile. Why don't we assume good faith until we get some concrete information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I did email several months ago & had no response :undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I did email several months ago & had no response :undecided: Sorry Clive, I edited my response to avoid stoking fires inadvertently. That's interesting though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soleil Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 "And still we are being asked to sign up terms and conditions without first having sight of them" - 2.45 "‘it is of fundamental importance for a consumer’ to have ‘information, before concluding a contract, on the terms of the contract and the consequences of concluding it ..." - "2.57 As the 20th recital of the Directive expressly acknowledges, plain language is of little value unless consumers are actually given an opportunity to examine all the terms." Source: Unfair contract terms guidance CMA37 pages 31 & 33 I doubt it is legally enforceable but that may be of little comfort at the showground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Ok Lauren. I'm not against the show or the new owners, who are to be congratulated for having the courage to take it on. I probably will go, as for me it represents good value. But just wish things were a bit more open & I would have thought the news section of their website would be an ideal place for us to read about the improvements they will provide & the terms under which we will be expected to abide in advance of attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Maybe, they aren't aware of HMVF....... With nearly 12 000 members and about 450 000 posts as well as winning the Vanderveen award that would be a bit strange. So what alternatives would there be at the same dates or near to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) With nearly 12 000 members and about 450 000 posts as well as winning the Vanderveen award that would be a bit strange. And with a whole section on this forum dedicated to the show they have bought, and which used to receive input from the organisers... With their fantastic digital marketing platform (whatever that's supposed to mean?) you'd think they would have posted updates on every hobby forum available, including the US-based ones and yet there's been nothing to my knowledge apart from, apparently, a motorcycle forum. It is their show now and they can do what they like but I think they may be underestimating the need for goodwill on the part of the exhibitors. - MG Edited January 15, 2016 by TooTallMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchlesswdg3 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Prior to 2015 I have been trying to encourage more of the WD motorcycling clan to exhibit at W&P, but many remain firmly in the camp of "why should I pay to attract visitors to the show?". My view is that it is a commercial show catering equally for the public and the MV attendees and for many reasons represents very good value for the money........and still does! You cannot compare it to club or other "amateur" events. I was just taken aback somewhat at the feeling by the new owner that IMPS and MVT attendees had been seen as scammers by taking (exploiting?) concessions offered to them. Maybe I have been naive but I always thought that the great majority of folk abided by the concession rules and if they had not then surely Rex would have voiced his ire? And whatever is the correct viewpoint, it seems odd to me that anyone would want to antagonise potential customers for 2016 in this way..........after all, the average MV owner is always reasonable, intelligent, kind and considerate (ahem!). I can understand the need to maximise revenue, but some revenue generation is not immediately obvious. For example, in my experience MV owners tend to be the folk who do most of the serious buying at a lot of the stalls and stallholders presumably pay to attend on the basis that they will get lots of punters. If the serious MV owners stay away, stallholders will suffer and think twice about coming back. Maybe such aspects effectively underwrote financially the concessions offered to IMPS, etc? Anyhow, notwithstanding, my sympathies do still rest with the new incumbents and I hope 2016 will be a success for them and their punters. The proof of the 2016 pudding will be in the eating and I am going to give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz48 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Re: IMPS Agreement for entry to War and Peace. I raised some of the IMPS concerns over W and P on another forum and John Allison posted the following ( you dont have my queries below, but I think you can work out what points he is answering......quite robustly); he clearly holds views 180 degrees from some people at least on this site. I cannot really accept that past practice by members to minimise cost of entry could be classed as a scam, as it was within the rules. But hey ho. I think it is still likely to be a good value show but I can sympathise with folk who have serious multi- vehicle entries. Here is what he says: Item 1 :- I did pay for W&P it was not a gift,,,,,, if the corporate print companies had got hold of it ,,,the £10 charge for loos & showers would be the last of your issues Item2, IMPS still have an allocation of tickets for their members fact ,,,, NOTE imps never had free entry ,,,, IMPS & W&P had a financial contra agreement IMPS did not take monies in return but entry tickets issued to IMPS members Item 3;- one of the many scams in getting your mates in !!! having sat at booking in all day it was rather sad being honest ,,, Mr imps man books in his vehicle £25 two adults both meant to be imps members + two children along with his four other vehicles all complete with 4 persons in each YET none being imps members other than the driver booking in ,,,the loss being either IMPS membership or W&P ticket sale ? Item 4 ;- based on item 3 its approximately 6 out of every 10 vehicles ran this scam ,,,question they all go for a number 1 & 2 every day and they are happy for me to pay for the removal of said items,,, I forgot plus a shower Item 5, going back to item 3 mr imps with his 5 vehicles ,,,he + his team have arrived for their ten day holiday,,, YES over 80 % of all bookings arrive for the 10 days PS its £25 + £10 total £35,, 2016,, for ten day hols and all you have to do is bring a MV Item 6 ;- if you don’t want to pay your £35 to enjoy the show for ten days ,,,,, bring nothing and pay for public camping £200 ,,, or park in public car park buy day ticket walk round,,,, SORRY i am a bit tight i will go for the £35 option Item 7 ;- Service charge brought about by you the visitor ,,,you brought the issue of loos & showers not enough & unclean,, easy fix £10 charge loos & shower cleaners 24 hrs a day,, simple Item 8 ;- you don’t have a show without my MV mr organiser !! correct PS without me you dont have no show to attend ? PS its £35 for ten days camping have a great ten day looking around the stalls and mv if you wish ? Item 9 ;-attractions stall holders over 90% of the visitor attend the stalls ,,, A thought when I attend Netley Marsh bike jumble I get charged £60 to camp ,,,that was for one night ,,,STILL i do like going around the stalls Item 10;- booking in ,,,the picture,,, yes the size was incorrect and yes we altered this all being correct on the website ,,, question why did no one kindly drop an email to say you could do with looking at this problem ?,,,,, reason for picture ,,,,to stop another scam people booking in and not even having a vehicle ! still it was cheap £25 ten day holiday,,,, REF mv & motor cycle or private vehicle & motorcycle whats the problem your booking form will say what you are exhibiting and the staff will see it your exhibit Item 11,- Our digital marketing platform has brought back many MV owners that have not been to W&P for many years plus more traders so the in all we are very happy with progress in the short time in charge Item 12;- W&P 2016 has elements never seen before ,,, during Malvern people had a sneak preview ,, and all went well Item 13;- explain why I would set about damaging W&P this is a long term business plan to return my investment Item 14 ;- just clear up this point the scams do not all point towards the IMPS it applies to MVT also both as bad as each other I have read the above alleged response several times (and the many subsequent posts) with varying thoughts from disbelief to utter amazement if the above is a true representation of the current owner of W & P stance and answers to questions posed to him. At best it smacks of arrogance and do as I say, I’m the Boss now and by suggesting 60% of I.M.P’s and M.V.T members with vehicles attending the show ran a scam (item 3 one of the many scams!!! & item 14), meaning dishonest is unbelievable. Have either of these organisations made representation to the organisers of the show regarding this accusation against their members asking for clarification with proof of alleged wrong doing. While the hobby is full of characters it always has been the vast majority in my humble opinion are honest and trustworthy who help and encourage others that’s the norm. Regarding the supposed lock-down on the Saturday night, a lock-down I assume means to restrict, to confine person or person’s un-named to a confined space, to imprison, if so under what act of Parliament is this to be enacted or would this be an attempt at unlawful imprisonment, lawyers to the fore. For some W & P is still the best and will always remain so, for others a quick visit get what you went for and leave, others won’t bother going but happy to moan. What I am finding hard to understand is the total apparent lack of appreciation shown towards the vehicle owners who’s attendance makes the show, any show and especially W&P in such numbers although of late I think the numbers are drastically down year on year from the hay-days of a few years ago – like W&P then go its only a show if not go elsewhere there’s plenty of choice - Baz Edited January 15, 2016 by Baz48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'm saying the folks taking this show on are a) only human like the rest of us, and b) doing the show for the first time (albeit with sone experience of other shows). If I saw a thread like this I'd run a mile. Why don't we assume good faith until we get some concrete information. I'm all for good faith Lauren but can I suggest labelling the majority of the two largest Military Vehicle Clubs members as "scammers" is not going to help his cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) I'm all for good faith Lauren but can I suggest labelling the majority of the two largest Military Vehicle Clubs members as "scammers" is not going to help his cause. I agree, but Ive not seen any context that says that. Who knows what item 14 was, and given that this is the Internet, whether it was actually him posting it. It just sounds a bit off to me, so I'd rather wait to hear from a concrete source. I'd imagine we'll either see something responding from the organisations after talking to him, or something from him on the actual W&P website. Edited January 15, 2016 by Lauren Child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchlesswdg3 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Lauren, I have just done a cut and paste from another forum from John Allison's post so its his words and they DO relate to his views on the way IMPS members (and MVT it seems) used their entry entitlement. I challenged him on this view and he remained firm in his viewpoint. As I suggested above, I still do not really understand fully why he feels this way, so if you want to follow up, please do as he suggests and phone him via the W&P number. I hope to meet him at the show and have a chat about all this in person as I intend going. Its all about the show, and the show is still us. The organisers "just" provide the means! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiketheBike Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 If the new organiser does have a digital marketing campaign, part of that is to see what is out there already with regards digital media. a simple search for "war and peace revival review" brings HMVF second in the search results....so even if they were unaware of hmvf before (doubtful), they certainly are now? just a shame they are ignoring everyone, they would have a good audience here to scupper any rumours or out of context quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.303fan Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 As a family we discussed it, we are not attending the show this year. Me and my wife will be doing a few steam rallies with free entry. With the camping gear in another country it means a Travelodge to spend a few nights in. However we will be monitoring how the war and peace turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchlesswdg3 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I have just finished reading the War & Peace Show interview with John Allison in the February edition of Classic Military Vehicle. If this is accurate reporting then it provides a lot of insight into the new philosophy adopted by the Show's new owners. Certainly John's comments appear to tie in with what I have posted here regarding his views on IMPS attendance, etc.. The aim apparently is to make it much more public focussed. He thinks of the previous shows under Rex as follows: "It's a massive event run by enthusiasts that just meet up once a year but you cannot run an event of this size on that ethos. It's an entertainment, and that entertainment is for the visiting public not for the likes of you and me who are there because we enjoy it." I take this to mean that its not an event for the benefit of the likes of us in IMPS, MVT, etc.........which kind of begs the question of whether we are really welcome at all? I get a sinking feeling about all this. Still, only way to find out is go, I guess. Certainly the proposals to improve layout, access, viewing etc look good. Do have a look at the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Umm - interesting. I guess this shows just how out of touch the new organiser is. If you ask the majority of War and Peace attendees why they go to the show, I'd guess around 80% go to see old and meet new friends. Yes, a small number do go for the public but I think even if the public didn't attend numbers would still be high. I have taken the ARRV to show the public but I still go to see mates etc. I don't think he's doing himself any favours and he may regret a few of his comments. Time will tell but there is an awful lot of people on various forums shunning the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiketheBike Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It's an entertainment, and that entertainment is for the visiting public not for the likes of you and me who are there because we enjoy it. cool, if it's not for our entertainment what other reason would you take and show a vehicle....unless he is thinking of paying all the exhibitors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchlesswdg3 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 One of the things that did make me chuckle in this CMV interview was his firm insistence that a "lock down" would be imposed on all exhibitors on Saturday to prevent exits before the Show's official close on Sat night , " unless they had a very very good reason". Slight air of unreality here? Also appears rather unjust insomuch that if we pay to attend, we are customers and I have not been to any shops where they lock people in! Having cake and eating it? I mean, its right to appeal to folk's better nature to stay to the end and what with now having the Sunday as moving out day ( good idea) I would have thought that was enough and lockdowns are just going to needlessly cause trouble. Maybe something for the clubs to sort out with Mr Allison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Would a "Lockdown" be classed as illegal? keepig people in the show against their will? Just a thought! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 No, because you agree to it by signing the T&C when you enter the show ground :undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 No, because you agree to it by signing the T&C when you enter the show ground :undecided: which nobody knows about untill you book in! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry275 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 As the organisers will be at Stoneleigh, Maybe they will have a copy of the booking-in form with them. It would be a good pr action to reasure owners. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.