important European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

[Pete]

To be fair, I only heard about it a couple of weeks ago, via a Facebook group. It came up on Facebook before it did on here. Maybe the various organisations are playing catch up.

[arcot1751]

To be fair, I only heard about it a couple of weeks ago, via a Facebook group. It came up on Facebook before it did on here. Maybe the various organisations are playing catch up.

 

Bit late I think

[Pete]

It's not over until my Mrs sings. :-D

[Packhow75]

Interesting article... apologies if already posted...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12056281/Thousands-of-guns-in-British-museums-could-be-mutilated-under-new-law-from-Brussels.html

 

Tim

[DerekG]

Having a huge deactivated gun collection im worried (my future pension) ive done a little research and the proposed wording for the ban is 'machine gun' not assult weapons this woul cover a lot of weapons from .30 cals, brens and vickers tonstens and other smg,s so please all sign up. the only people exempt would be museums

What makes a museum..............? could be a lot of new small ones opening

[arcot1751]

Having a huge deactivated gun collection im worried (my future pension) ive done a little research and the proposed wording for the ban is 'machine gun' not assult weapons this woul cover a lot of weapons from .30 cals, brens and vickers tonstens and other smg,s so please all sign up. the only people exempt would be museums

What makes a museum..............? could be a lot of new small ones opening

 

They are even threatening museum held firearms too, nothing is safe. I fear for your collection as I fear for mine. Sanity left the room years ago. Meanwhile in Cameron's "totally gun free environment" he will still have his 24/7 armed protection despite him assuring our safety because he took all those nasty guns away. This is totally utterly mad, there is increased handgun crime in the UK but there are NO handguns because it's against the law in the UK to own one ! Laws apply only to the law abiding NOT the lawless. Can someone not stop this bloody madness ? The EU is Nazi Germany all over again, they have taken over without a shot fired.

[Tony B]

Not only us I suspect. When the Euro was introduced I went over the BOAR in Belgium. I remarked to a friend that it was now a lot easier only having one currency to worry about. He gave me a dirty look and said 'Jaa the new Reichmark.'

 

79X100 Re Cameron, he's a POLOTICIAN! If he wanted the sun to rise in the West he'd find the argument to suit his views! Mind you if he said the Sun was coming up in the morning, I'd buy a lot of torches.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Tony B

[arcot1751]

Has anyone heard how Bruce Crompton feels about these idiotic new law proposals ? It will curtail his business somewhat. :mad:

[Tony B]

Bring back the bent cucumber!!

 

Actually it was a British Victorian idea to grow staright cucumbers.

 

 

http://www.wayfair.co.uk/Heritage-Traders-Cucumber-Straightener-Glass-GL003-HETR1053.html :-D

[gas 44]

Whilst we are all very sad at what happened in France lets look at this in a logical way..........

What would the French do IF THEY were to have something imposed on them they did not like.....

THEY would take direct action, the "Champs" in Paris would become grid locked as 100's/1000's of "101 st" Hotchkiss jeeps parked up with the onwners/driver shouting "NON"

Can you imagine Whitehall full of Jeeps, Gmc, Halftracks,Landrovers (the list goes on) but you get the idea.

Sign as many bits of paper, or online, But signing/talking did not stop our fuel hitting the pound per litre level, HOWEVER a couple of days blocking Calias harbour by a few small fishing boats made the French goverment rethink their plan on fuel prices........

I have a couple of deacts, and would be very sad to loose them, I gather from a few posts on here and on another forum there are some people that will loose vasts amount of money......bit like the stockmarket crash in the 30's I suppose.....

[Bob Grundy]

We seem to know what is going on. However think of the 13 year old that gleefully received as a Christmas present some 5/6 years ago a de-ac Russian rifle and has time has gone on is no longer interested. If after March 2016 he passes it on to his cousin oblivious of this EU law then an offence has been commited, Both of then will in a precarious position having no knowledge (like we do) of breaking the law, after all they have a de-ac Cert....The first part of the above is true.

It is unpolicable and unenforcable.

[g0ozs]

I am not a re-enactor (my presence here has more to do with radio) but my father was a lifelong collector and I kept a few of his most treasured items for sentimental reasons. I think that even if the regulations are framed in terms of items being "placed on the market" allowing existing collections to remain in current hands, there will need to be some kind of provision for those who inherit collections to have them re-deactivated to current standards or surrender them in an orderly way for the compensation that would have been due if the deceased had done so earlier.

 

Iain

Edited December 20, 2015 by g0ozs
fix typo

[rnixartillery]

I fear we may never get the chance to vote on a simple in or out. I doubt the great experiment will still be here in twenty years but I also can't see any of these sorts of laws being repealed if we do regain our independence.

 

I quite agree and believe this could be the start to a whirlwind ,what will be next on the agenda ?

I'm sure National museums and clearly the MOD will be exempt but there are other private collection with historic value so I fear for these. A good friend of mine has the most extensive firearms collection I have ever seen which stems from early maxims,Vickers,Nordenfelts ,PomPoms right up to weapons of today ,the collection contains over 1,500 pieces and he owns dozens of one offs,a multi million pound collection .

I hope someone with sense can identify these rarities.

 

 

Rob.......................rnixartillery.

[g0ozs]

Signed with the following comment:

 

I doubt that properly deactivated weapons (i.e.. to current UK standards) present a significant risk of reuse and in any case the UK experience of handgun prohibition shows that removal of legal weapons has little impact on use by professional criminals and terrorists who commit pre-mediateted crime.

 

On a separate matter I inherited certain items which would I think remain lawful under the directive from my late father and I believe that the registration requirements are not proportionate if deactivation is done properly. I also believe that the regulations need to allow for transfer of collections from a deceased collector to their heir in a safe and orderly way with provision for compensation to the heirs if the items cannot be transferred.

 

In countries where de-activation standards have changed either previously or as a result of this directive there needs to be a lawful and affordable path for collectors and museums to have certificated deactivated weapons re-deactivated to current standards if necessary to remain lawful holders.

[datadawg]

This is totally utterly mad, there is increased handgun crime in the UK but there are NO handguns because it's against the law in the UK to own one ! Laws apply only to the law abiding NOT the lawless. Can someone not stop this bloody madness ?

 

I agree with the point that gun laws rarely deter criminals. I'm not sure if most of the members here realize, but the San Bernadino carnage in USA that happened recently occurred in spite of the fact that the weapons used were illegal in California. Someone who is willing to engage in terrorism and kill innocent people will not give a damn if the weapons they use are legal or illegal -- simply put, making "guns" illegal will not deter terrorists from using them!

 

I am in USA and won't be affected by your legislation (I also don't own any guns or even deacs), but as I said in another thread on this topic,

 

The politicians are desperate to reassure the public they have terrorism "under control," and they will enact any kind of window dressing legislation, unless they think such legislation will be politically costly to their career (they will not be reelected) or their political party. The only way you can derail their plans is to go on the offensive and publicize that instead of taking REAL measures, they are taking phony measures, which dupe the public into a false sense of security; instead of spending effort and resources on legitimate tools that will make citizens safe, they are spending money and squandering public resources on dubious efforts. Only by exposing their failure as elected officials, will you guys be able to do ANYTHING. You must organize, find a kindred spirit that owns a PR company, and start blasting social media. Present statistics on how many terrorist acts involved deactivated weapons that were reactivated. Expose how much time and money the politicos are spending on their campaign and what the expected outcome will be (zero effect).

[stronghold]

Latest news on this .......look here

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:JOL_2015_333_R_0007&qid=1450637621527&from=EN

[rog8811]

Signed and commented, it is all I can do.

[stronghold]

The deactivation regulation is a separate piece of legislation and follows a different route. It does not necessitates of Parliamentary or Council approval as the Commission was already empowered to set standards in the matter. And their standards as you can see in the regulations are even worse than the current Italian ones (which are the worst in the EU).

 

The regulation (which, different than a directive, is self-applying and does not necessitates member states' laws to implement its contents) was adopted, published, will enter into force next month and its provisions on what constitutes a deactivated firearm will apply to all deactivations performed after April 8, 2016.

 

In sum: as for deacts, the regulation sets forth the "minimum" technical standards to consider a firearm deactivated; the directive defines the way deacts are treated within the EU. The two things are obviously connected but are not the same thing.

 

 

Please note:

 

a) deactivated firearms are not one and the same with what the Commission defines as ""salute and acoustic weapons" (firearms specifically converted for the sole use of firing blanks, for use in theatre performances, photographic sessions, movies and television recordings).

 

So the movie industry will not come to our help.

 

b) even if reenacting could be construed as being a "performance" when in public, there would still be a problem because "a deact is a deact is a deact". Anything else, you need a different type of owner's permission.

 

c) finally, I don't think you can "opt out" from a Regulation. As I said, a EU Regulation is a very different animal than a EU Directive.

 

Only way out of this one is to get out of the EU

[ajmac]

How will the proposed regulations impact wartime AT and artillery pieces? Would some of the wartime automatic AA guns be banned?

[rnixartillery]

We are all in the same boat here whether you own a Bren Gun or a Sherman Tank ,this will effect us all.

The advise I have been given is to write letters to appose the EU legislation that has not clearly been thought through.

It will be taken to the court of human rights if anything to determine compensation ,to have something legally owned and then made an offence to own pretty much overnight has to be compensated for by someone !

I believe the Royal armouries have stated they will not de-activate thousands of weapons held in their collection and rightly so.

We must not give up on this yet, those who shout the loudest get heard !

 

Rob.....................rnixartillery.

[sirhc]

The EU are not the only group to destroy historical objects and enforce crazy rules on people, the other lot are called ISIS.

[rnixartillery]

Info on how to make your feeling known.

 

http://dwa977.wix.com/dwa1#!eu-legislation/b7t85

 

Rob...............rnixartillery.

[Charlie]

Looks like the new deact regs come into force (or rather 'came into force') on 8 January, 2016 and applies from 8 April, 2016 !!??

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2015:333:FULL&from=EN

 

????

 

C.

[ArtistsRifles]

Chipping in (belatedly) here:

The EU proposals in their draft form ban ownership of the following totally:

 

* Live semi automatic of fully automatic weapons

* Deactivated semi automatic or fully automatic weapons

* Anything resembling a semi automatic or fully automatic weapon. This includes airsoft and replicas

 

So if the proposals pass through unaltered then:

* Living History from WW1 onwards will effectively cease to exist as a military display without weapons is a tad pointless

* Airsoft will become illegal effectively as pretty much every air soft weapon is a copy of either a semi or fully auto one.

* There will be an increase in unemployed thus a drain in state funds as deactivated armouries, air soft shops and sites are forced to close shop.

* There will be a reduction in tax income thus less state funds to the respective governments through the lack of taxes on sales.

 

There is a committee sitting right now reviewing this draft proposal and, in fairness, it has to be said the members and in particular the lady chairing it, one Vicky Ford, are aghast at the knock on effects this proposal is going to have in draft form. She has already met with the national museums, proof houses and NABIS and been told the proposal is unworkable. In the UK alone museums will have entire collections effectively destroyed trying to meet the new requirements wiping hundred of thousands of £££'s. As another poster has remarked - the proof houses are stating it is unworkable because they will be unable to examine the internals to confirm it actually has been deactivated.The requirement in the proposal say magazines must be welded into place - no one yet has explained how the bakelite magazines uses in a Kalashnikov, for example, are meant to be welded. NABIS are very concerned that a deactivation standard that has taken 28 years to develop and runs out at 48 pages will be replaced by one drafted overnight and tops 11 pages in total. And then add to this all the letters received so far by the MEP's sitting on, or associated with, the review committee. They are trying to reach a compromise solution and, to their credit, most are working hard at least in the direction of our needs if not totally on side. There are a few exceptions - of the 80 letter I sent off only a handful have been negative replies - and these are all 100% from UK Labour party MEP's who simply quote the party line of the odious reptile no leading that party. Sorry to bring politics into it but that is just a statement of fact.

It maybe that we have to accept a form of licensing or registration of our deac/replica's to keep the activists quiet - although this too has certain unworkable elements to it, not the least being there is no record of who currently owns what.

However - it is not too late to make you voices heard folks. There is still time, not only to sign that petition but also to email every single MEP sitting on that review committee expressing your concerns and views. If you look on:

 

https://iapcar.org/act-now-oppose-eu-firearms-proposal/

 

You can find the names and email addresses of the MEP's involved. Draft an appropriate - and inoffensive - email and get it sent to all of them. Its worth noting that already no less than 5 member states (Austria, Finland, Germany, Lithuania, Slovakia) have refused point blank to accept this proposal so there IS room for manoeuvre still, nothing is cast in stone yet.

[Adrian Barrell]

Excellent post Neil, you have summed it up beautifully.