question First test and registration of Bedford MJ

[trapper]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm looking for some help and advice as I'm being given conflicting advice and information, my questions may be answered somewhere in the archives of this forum but I've trawled around for a while now and can't see what I want so here goes;

 

I've recently bought a 1986 Bedford MJ that I want to use as a private vehicle to take to shows and LARP events, I have an array of paperwork to fill out and some work to do. VOSA tell me a just have to fill out a VTG1 and a Tacho exemption form then wait for two weeks for a test appointment. Is it really as simple as that? My test centre is an hours drive away; does this still count as driving to a pre-booked MOT and can I drive home if the vehicle fails?

 

My local Garage tells me it's not as simple as that and that the vehicle must meet all the specs of a brand new vehicle being registered as if it's an up to date HGV. I doubt that an '86 MJ will come anywhere close to meeting current spec especially when it comes to emissions and probably a few safety aspects as well!

 

A local truck company tells me that it will be probably be fine as it is as its age will be taken into account and that fact that it will be registered as a private vehicle will make all the difference and that I won't need to make any modifications but I will need trade plates or a low loader to take it to a test.

 

Can anyone help with any advice? Are there any 'standard' mods that have to be made in order to get it through a test? Is this going to be a relatively simple test and registration or have I just bought a massive white elephant?

 

I'm also not sure whether to downplate the truck to 7.5 ton so that I can drive it on my grandfather rights C1 licence or whether I should take my C+E and keep it at it full plated weight, will this make any difference to tests, tax class or usage?

 

Please hep me hive mind!

[Brooky]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm looking for some help and advice as I'm being given conflicting advice and information, my questions may be answered somewhere in the archives of this forum but I've trawled around for a while now and can't see what I want so here goes;

 

I've recently bought a 1986 Bedford MJ that I want to use as a private vehicle to take to shows and LARP events, I have an array of paperwork to fill out and some work to do. VOSA tell me a just have to fill out a VTG1 and a Tacho exemption form then wait for two weeks for a test appointment. Is it really as simple as that? My test centre is an hours drive away; does this still count as driving to a pre-booked MOT and can I drive home if the vehicle fails?

 

My local Garage tells me it's not as simple as that and that the vehicle must meet all the specs of a brand new vehicle being registered as if it's an up to date HGV. I doubt that an '86 MJ will come anywhere close to meeting current spec especially when it comes to emissions and probably a few safety aspects as well!

 

A local truck company tells me that it will be probably be fine as it is as its age will be taken into account and that fact that it will be registered as a private vehicle will make all the difference and that I won't need to make any modifications but I will need trade plates or a low loader to take it to a test.

 

Can anyone help with any advice? Are there any 'standard' mods that have to be made in order to get it through a test? Is this going to be a relatively simple test and registration or have I just bought a massive white elephant?

 

I'm also not sure whether to downplate the truck to 7.5 ton so that I can drive it on my grandfather rights C1 licence or whether I should take my C+E and keep it at it full plated weight, will this make any difference to tests, tax class or usage?

 

Please hep me hive mind!

 

In answer to your first question

Yes you can drive it to the test station for a prebooked test

If it fails then yes you should be able to drive it home.............unless I think the defect is classed as dangerous (I think!!!)

have a trawl through the construction and use regs to see what might be needed to be done (under run bars seem to ring a bell to me)

I am sure more knowledgeable people will be along shortly

Although I would be tempted to put it in for test and if it fails fix what it fails on!!

 

As regards your driving licence, fine downplate and drive on C1, if however you go for CAT C (only need the E if drawinga trailer) the it make no difference to taxation or usage (presumably you will tax it as private heavy goods)

[oats and barley]

my leyland daf went through the test without side and rear bars they said at the test center because it was an off road 4x4 vehicle they would only get ripped off anyway and the silly thing is if the same vehicle was registered as a camper it did not need side or rear under run bars:nut:

[remeguy]

As reguards side bars i think if you check you dont need them because its 4X4 and has a second driving axle as i as told when working at 11 EOD by a military guru:cool2:

[trapper]

Thanks guys,

 

I had a chat with a very nice Tech man from VOSA today (he phoned me within about 30 minutes of submitting an email query, very impressed!) The question of 4WD did crop up but he still thinks that it would have to have side rails and rear protection rails. I'll have a trawl around and try and find some photos of other peoples solutions. The spare wheel seems to be a bit of an issue as it's high enough to need rails but needs to be kept clear, the VOSA guy was quite reassuring in that the vehicle would be tested for its age rather than as a brand new vehicle and he also agreed that there was a fair margin for interpretation on some aspects.

It can apparently be legally driven to and from the test even though it won't have any reg plates (although I don't have a C licence myself......yet)

I've also read all 212pages of the HGV Inspectors manual today, very dull read, I won't be looking for the sequel!

 

Many fears have been answered and it looks as though it is going to be good and I should have my MJ on the road in a month or two :-D

 

 

Now to try and find a replacement tilt canvas and possibly a trailer for it. I'm have no military vehicle experience and have no idea what I should be looking for as a trailer other than it should have a bogie and air brakes. I was sold a trailer for it but when it came up with the truck it turned out to be more suitable for a landrover!

 

I'm still open to any advice that will help with getting it road legal just in case I've still missed something obvious.

[doug fleet]

the best person to ask about mj and for all the spare parts your ever going to need is dave crouch of crouch recovery in letterworth. he deals in these lorrys and is very helpfull. he helped me no end with stuff when i had my mk

[oats and barley]

if you dont get it down plated to 7.5tonnes and pull a trailer with a bogie and air brakes you will need an E to go with that C :shocked:

[trapper]

if you dont get it down plated to 7.5tonnes and pull a trailer with a bogie and air brakes you will need an E to go with that C :shocked:

 

Yes, I'm working on it, further up the thread I did mentioned I was going for my C+E. I'm just trying to find the funds as It's not a cheap option! I've been using an extended wheelbase Sprinter with a big trailer which is about a 15Metre combination which is getting into 'grey' areas of the law which was part of the reason I thought of buying the MJ. Those double garage tents are heavy blighters :cool2:

[oats and barley]

its funny you say that nothing to do with military but a friend of mine a lady antiques dealer had been going to antiques fairs for years with her sprinter and caravan recently got a tug, because the caravan was attached to a van load of antiques it was also classed as business, train weight well over 3.5 tonnes no tacho ,no operators license overweight :shocked: with your activities have you thought of going the showmans route taxed showmans or showmans restricted

[trapper]

I've not looked at a showmans licence for many years, it's bad enough with an MJ that only achieves 45 MPH, a showman's licence used to restrict you to 25 MPH, although it's probably been updated by now

[Edd]

So far as I remember to get the showman's exemption you have to earn over half of your leaving from fairs etc..... In fact it's probably a higher percentage. Also I think you need to be a member of the showman's guild.

 

Better off keeping it all legal and straightforward and go the C+E route.

 

Ed

[oats and barley]

i used to sell army surplus at shows anything from cambridge midsummer fair to fairford air tattoo i noticed a lot of vehicles taxed showmans there was an arctic that opened up into a shop selling country clothing next to me one day and the owner told me the idea was his vehicle did not move all week went to a show most weekends sat there all w/end and went home again a sort of very limited mileage i went to the auctions and bought an ex gas board dodge 7.5 you know the one cab like an rb44 same engine went in to chelmsford tax office and filled out the form and taxed it showmans all they wanted was the money its just a taxation class kept it a few years and sold it to a pop group and what our friend wants to do with the mj is more showman than selling wax jackets

[militant-nick]

Thanks guys,

 

I had a chat with a very nice Tech man from VOSA today (he phoned me within about 30 minutes of submitting an email query, very impressed!) The question of 4WD did crop up but he still thinks that it would have to have side rails and rear protection rails. I'll have a trawl around and try and find some photos of other peoples solutions. The spare wheel seems to be a bit of an issue as it's high enough to need rails but needs to be kept clear, the VOSA guy was quite reassuring in that the vehicle would be tested for its age rather than as a brand new vehicle and he also agreed that there was a fair margin for interpretation on some aspects.

It can apparently be legally driven to and from the test even though it won't have any reg plates (although I don't have a C licence myself......yet)

I've also read all 212pages of the HGV Inspectors manual today, very dull read, I won't be looking for the sequel!

 

Many fears have been answered and it looks as though it is going to be good and I should have my MJ on the road in a month or two :-D

 

 

Now to try and find a replacement tilt canvas and possibly a trailer for it. I'm have no military vehicle experience and have no idea what I should be looking for as a trailer other than it should have a bogie and air brakes. I was sold a trailer for it but when it came up with the truck it turned out to be more suitable for a landrover!

 

I'm still open to any advice that will help with getting it road legal just in case I've still missed something obvious.

 

see here for an example if you haven't already found it http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?46786-Bedford-MJ-Ex-reserve-very-low-milage

[militant-nick]

If you do have to add the side & rear protection bars, they're not too difficult or expensive. We modified this 14 plate DAF truck at work recently for about £200 to meet Transport For Londons new safer lorry scheme regulations. You can buy the parts from local HGV supply agents. The modifications are to the spec of the testers manual. We had the added fun of making sure they cleared the cab & chassis furniture when the body tips, they also fold upwards to provide access to the chassis mounted fuel tanks etc or can be unbolted altogether.

[trapper]

Thanks for the pictures of the rails, that's just what I needed as examples of what to do.

I'm lucky in that I have a large fully equipped workshop with 3 phase MIG gear and plasma cutter etc so I can make them from scratch if I have to however over the past few days whilst searching the web for photos of MJs with side rails I've found more examples without them than I have found with them so I think I'll chance a test without them and try and convince them that I don't need them and then fit them for a re-test if I have to.

 

As for licence I think I'm going to stick to the C+E licence route and have all bases covered just in case.

[militant-nick]

Round Derby way we have a couple of training companies who charge £850 for 3 days training then test or £1050 4 days training then test Cat C then same again Cat C+E. Theory tests aren't too expensive to book through direct gov website (I'm putting four lads through test at work currently). Luckily for you, you won't need driver cpc. Hope you can find reputable trainers round your way.

[Paul Dodd]

Setting aside whether there are allowances made for historic or Ex military vehicles, the current regulations regarding Lateral and Rear Underun protection are there for a purpose.

 

That is to afford some protection to "unprotected Road Users" such as Cyclists and Pedestrians.

 

With regard to Lateral protection, this is especially useful if you do not have the modern standards of Indirect Vision devices as it affords protection against anyone inadvertently falling beneath the rear wheels.

 

I am sure you would agree that having to defend your self in this situation would be somewhat more difficult if the decision not to fit guards was made only on the basis of keeping the vehicle aesthetics original.

 

For the IVA process certain vehicles are exempted these are the terms given:

 

Vehicles with a distance of more than 3 metres between consecutive axles must be fitted with Lateral protection

 

Exempt vehicles are: Artic Tractors, Car Transporters , Gulley Emptiers, Vehicles expressly designed and constructed for a purpose that would be hindered by the fitment of Lateral protection. Road Sweepers

 

You can of course avoid fitting the sort of guards shown in the photographs if the body or any lockers etc fitted to the vehicle fulfil the same criteria. There are then certain conditions those parts must meet so as to conform.

 

The type of devices shown in th pictures can be bought as removable devices, from companies such as VBG or Service metals. This is so they can be used practically to gain access say to the hoses on Fuel tankers etc, or in some cases where the vehicle is an N2G or N3G (IE Off road) they can be removed or stowed to prevent damage.

 

So maybe you can consider this so they can be removed for showing and replaced for road use.

 

For the Rear Underun protection, again for IVA purposes the default position is that all vehicles must have this, however again it is possible to obtain exemptions for certain types of vehicle.

 

Generally this exemption covers vehicles where the equipment mounted to the rear would not be useable if a Rear Underrun device was fitted (EG A Fire Engine, or a Grit Spreader)

 

In this case however Off Road vehicles (N2G or N3G) are exempt, so if your vehicle meets the criteria for becoming an Off Road vehicle ( and that isn't just that it has 4WD) , it would certainly make sense to register it as such to gain this exemption.

 

If it doesn't have an exemption it may be possible that the bodywork could perform the same function both mechanically and dimensionally as the device in which case having had it tested and witnessed you could claim compliance in this way, but that would be unusual.

 

So in a nutshell

 

N2 or N3 (On Highway) it legally needs both

N2G or N3G (Off highway) it needs Lateral but Not rear Underun

 

Sorry for the rambling post but nothing in this line of work can be explained properly in a few words.

[oats and barley]

we have all seen the cyclist, cycling along and then suddenly turning and cycling across the pedestrian crossing,one hand phone in the other, i always wonder if there was an incident would they be a cyclist or a pedestrian. when i was a kid we were taught look left look right look left again walk do not run. how things have changed now we have to go everywhere at 20mph being overtaken by cyclists on the pavement.when QLs and GMCs have to have side and underrun bars i'm turning off the light an going home

[Degsy]

when i was a kid we were taught look left look right look left again walk do not run.

 

 

I don't think so...........more like look right, look left, look right again;)

[militant-nick]

A lot of the new trucks we are getting at work now have the audible (VERY audible) 'vehicle turning left' warnings when the left indicator is engaged by the driver and 4 cameras constantly recording facing front, rear, n/s & o/s. I guess time will tell how effective these devices are.

[oats and barley]

when i was a kid we were taught look left look right look left again walk do not run.

 

 

I don't think so...........more like look right, look left, look right again;)

 

i was living in paris