question WW2 British Ammo Box Brown paint

[Ian L]

Hi Guys anyone know where I can get the correct colour brown paint or paint code for British WW2 ammo boxes & water Jerry cans ?

I think its very similar to the brown that WW2 Canadian vehicles use ? might be a tad lighter but not as light as the early war British brown that R&R (warpaint) sell.

thanks Ian

[Chris Suslowicz]

Hi Guys anyone know where I can get the correct colour brown paint or paint code for British WW2 ammo boxes & water Jerry cans ?

I think its very similar to the brown that WW2 Canadian vehicles use ? might be a tad lighter but not as light as the early war British brown that R&R (warpaint) sell.

thanks Ian

 

It should be SCC No.2 Brown, I think, which was merged into BS381 as 499 Service Brown. BUT it has to be matt finish, which makes it look a much lighter shade of brown than the shiny gloss version. You can (apparently) get matting agent that will mix with it for spraying or brush painting. A friend has used it to refinish WS22 cases and reckons it looks identical to the original "apart from having just come off the production line".

 

Chris.

[fayjo56]

I think I might have some Canadian Service Brown in eggshell if its any good to you?. I'll check the workshop at the weekend.

[Ron]

For several years now, I have been buying my paint from "Rainbow Paints" here in Dorset. (I see they have other branches)

 

It's 1 pk polyurethane and fairly petrol proof and I can get it in full matt. I just bought this litre of 499 service brown last week.

 

As usual, (even today), there would have been differences in shades between suppliers and batches and I doubt we would have been supplied paint from Canada. But I dare say they had there own similar version of Service Brown. Ron

[Ian L]

For several years now, I have been buying my paint from "Rainbow Paints" here in Dorset. (I see they have other branches)

 

It's 1 pk polyurethane and fairly petrol proof and I can get it in full matt. I just bought this litre of 499 service brown last week.

 

As usual, (even today), there would have been differences in shades between suppliers and batches and I doubt we would have been supplied paint from Canada. But I dare say they had there own similar version of Service Brown. Ron

 

Cheers Ron & Chris, I'll get my son to mix up BS381 / 499.

 

We've been experimenting with late war British green but it amazing how the shade changes depending on the amount of matting agent, you get the colour right on a test card, add less matting agent & you get a totally different colour :mad:

[simon king]

Cheers Ron & Chris, I'll get my son to mix up BS381 / 499.

 

Comparison of original SCC2 ammo crate with new BS381c/499 service brown paint on trailer

 

Although the light is not good, original SCC2 seems slightly more orange. 499 is IIRC described as "substitute for/equivalent to" SCC2 not "same as" - but as others have said, there will be batch variations

 

Edited October 16, 2015 by simon king

[morris c8 fat]

B&Q did me a good match to the wood 303 ammo box in there Valspar range of mix and match

[Ian L]

B&Q did me a good match to the wood 303 ammo box in there Valspar range of mix and match

 

There was a guy at W&P last year with a James ML at the French café display & he used B&Q 'conker' brown paint, I thought it looked a tad too dark though.

[matchlesswdg3]

The other thing to bear in mind is that the colour of original WW2 era paint will likely have changed quite a lot over the years due to weathering and handling, so comparison with fresh paintwork is possibly a futile exercise at least in terms of trying to get a good match. In any case, as Ron said, WD paint in WW2 was variable in shade according to pigments available. I understand that Canada could not get green pigment, hence Canadian brown. A case of near enough is good enough?

[fv1609]

This is "conker" was a good match to the original & I only had to touch up with it in places, but this is post-war.

 

[79x100]

The parts that I've seen don't seem to show that wartime paint was all that variable within the known colour types, at least as a factory finish. That disruptive colours were delivered in powder form does mean that they were dependent upon the mixing medium.

 

However, wartime production was not based upon cottage industry. There were strictly controlled production standards and materials supply to paint manufacturers. Obviously, there could be shade differences that would show on repaired panels etc. but not the completely different colours justified by some restorers on the basis that 'wartime colours varied'.

 

The change to SCC No.2 Brown came about in the UK due to a shortage of chromate compounds. If anything Canada would have been less restricted but the colours which they used strictly followed British standards.

 

The naming of 'Canadian Brown' seems to have arisen in liberated Holland where of course in many places, Canadian troops were the first seen. However, verbal evidence indicates that the majority of British vehicles in NW Europe were also SCC No.2. Any Khaki Green No.3 vehicles would have been at least three or so years old and British Olive Drab had barely arrived in June 1944 so any OD vehicles used by British or Commonwealth forces were pretty much those of US manufacture.

 

Preserved items in SCC No.2 seem to suggest that it wasn't all that chocolatey (unlike SCC No.1A Very Dark Brown) and in some light wasn't all that far from British Battledress colour.

[Ian L]

The parts that I've seen don't seem to show that wartime paint was all that variable within the known colour types, at least as a factory finish. That disruptive colours were delivered in powder form does mean that they were dependent upon the mixing medium.

 

However, wartime production was not based upon cottage industry. There were strictly controlled production standards and materials supply to paint manufacturers. Obviously, there could be shade differences that would show on repaired panels etc. but not the completely different colours justified by some restorers on the basis that 'wartime colours varied'.

 

The change to SCC No.2 Brown came about in the UK due to a shortage of chromate compounds. If anything Canada would have been less restricted but the colours which they used strictly followed British standards.

 

The naming of 'Canadian Brown' seems to have arisen in liberated Holland where of course in many places, Canadian troops were the first seen. However, verbal evidence indicates that the majority of British vehicles in NW Europe were also SCC No.2. Any Khaki Green No.3 vehicles would have been at least three or so years old and British Olive Drab had barely arrived in June 1944 so any OD vehicles used by British or Commonwealth forces were pretty much those of US manufacture.

 

Preserved items in SCC No.2 seem to suggest that it wasn't all that chocolatey (unlike SCC No.1A Very Dark Brown) and in some light wasn't all that far from British Battledress colour.

 

Thanks 70x100 this is the 'Dark earth' that I bought from War Paint & like you say its not far from British Battle Dress colour ? very light.

[Ian L]

Here is a 1943 ammo tin with original brown inside & a N.O.S (still boxed) 1942 AM Cycle light that has never seen the light of day, both very similar colour's & much darker that the 'Dark earth War Paint' but not as dark as Canadian brown or post war brown.

We spent hours last night mixing different shades of brown & percentage's of matting agent and came up with a 99% match to the lamp & damn close to the ammo box brown.

 

Photos don't really do the colours justice as there's a massive difference in the brown of the ammo box in the above post

Edited November 6, 2015 by Ian L

[Adrian Barrell]

Surely Dark Earth is an Air Ministry colour and is certainly lighter than Service Brown.

[Ian L]

Surely Dark Earth is an Air Ministry colour and is certainly lighter than Service Brown.

 

I'm being a bit thick here, are you asking or telling me that Air Ministry brown is Dark earth ? and if so that means that service brown must very dark like Canadian brown ? as Air Ministry brown is already quite dark :??? :???

[Adrian Barrell]

I made no mention of Air Ministry Brown, whatever that is. AFAIK, Dark Earth was an Air Ministry colour as used on aircraft together with Dark Green. The Army brown was SCC2 which seems to be a matt version of Service Brown. Dark Earth is a bit lighter than Service Brown in matt finishes.

Service Brown in gloss finish is very dark brown.

[Ian L]

I made no mention of Air Ministry Brown, whatever that is. AFAIK, Dark Earth was an Air Ministry colour as used on aircraft together with Dark Green. The Army brown was SCC2 which seems to be a matt version of Service Brown. Dark Earth is a bit lighter than Service Brown in matt finishes.

Service Brown in gloss finish is very dark brown.

 

 

:???:???:???:???

[Richard Farrant]

All this rambling on what SCC2 looks like, I had it mixed from a large example found in a 1942 armoured vehicle, the plate holding the control box was painted this colour, with a fabric between, so well protected. Warpaint had it matched for me by a large paint manufacturer.

[simon king]

All this rambling on what SCC2 looks like, I had it mixed from a large example found in a 1942 armoured vehicle, the plate holding the control box was painted this colour, with a fabric between, so well protected. Warpaint had it matched for me by a large paint manufacturer.

 

Which is fine if you are a fan of Warpaint paint - but perhaps not everybody is

[Richard Farrant]

Which is fine if you are a fan of Warpaint paint - but perhaps not everybody is

 

They have had several suppliers over the years, and the one that matched and made my SCC2 is a major manufacturer and I cannot fault their paint.

 

and no, I do not work for them

[MatchFuzee]

I haven't been able to make the link work to the "Possible alternative colours" therefore please start with the link and follow the route below.

 

http://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.asp

 

In "choose range" click on BS 381 C

 

In "choose colour" on BS381 499 Service brown

 

Click on brown square in the table for alternative descriptions for the brown paint and quality from "different" to "distinguishable to the practised eye"

 

[Richard Farrant]

I haven't been able to make the link work to the "Possible alternative colours" therefore please start with the link and follow the route below.

 

http://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.asp

 

In "choose range" click on BS 381 C

 

In "choose colour" on BS381 499 Service brown

 

Click on brown square in the table for alternative descriptions for the brown paint and quality from "different" to "distinguishable to the practised eye"

 

 

Trying to match these colours on a computer screen is useless as they look nothing like the actual colour, just tried 298 Olive Drab which I regularly paint with and it looks more like grey. You can only go with physical paint samples.

[MatchFuzee]

Trying to match these colours on a computer screen is useless as they look nothing like the actual colour, just tried 298 Olive Drab which I regularly paint with and it looks more like grey. You can only go with physical paint samples.

 

It was really to show that even the near alternatives range from "different" to "virtually indistinguishable" as rated in the Quality column, the various names (description) for the colour and the manufactures.

 

To quote from the page:-

Please note that colours can vary from different suppliers, batches and over time.

 

The colours depicted are also for guidance only. The displayed colour will depend on your monitor and browser and pearl or metallic colours have not been included. The finished colour, therefore, may not be as shown here.

[fv1609]

The definitive chart with 3x3 in samples is in:

 

War Emergency

British Standard 987C : 1942

Incorporating amendments issued December, 1944 and July 1945

CAMOUFLAGE COLOURS

September 1942

 

There is well preserved copy in the library of Bovington Tank Museuem referenced as:

623.77 (41)

CAMOUFLAGE/23

[ColinR]

Has the colour 'Vandyke' Brown been mentioned?

 

http://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.asp?cRange=BS%204800/5252&cRef=10%20B%2029

 

Saw this mentioned in a pamphlet as colour of ammo boxes etc. But don't know if its an early war thing or standard.