rnixartillery Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 From around the mid 1970's the right hand wheel was removed with the use of a Jack strut to deploy the Light Gun, the first generation L118's (1960's) carried a light hydraulic bottle jack (1 ton, light) and handle in brackets located at the rear of the carriage underneath the saddle which was evidently done away with because this method took too long. Does anyone have knowledge of this type of bottle jack, I know its hydraulic , rated at one ton and classed as light. dimensions are 7" depressed and 17" fully extended, base diameter around 4-5 inches. Any help appreciated. Rob...................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 You're a tad off track there mate. The was no '1st generation Light Gun'. Light Gun entered service in 1975, I know this for as fact because at the time I was doing a 12 month course at RSA and did a factory visit to ROF Nottingham, which awash with Light Guns under construction for the Brit Army. Before this the Brit Army used the Oto-Melara 105mm How (Pack How in UK service, introduced c. 1963) and I used these 1965-68 in Borneo and UK. If you are interested in the history of the 105mm Light Gun then see http://nigelef.tripod.com/p_105ltgun.htm . This site knows what it is talking about. You'll note that trials of the prototype Light Gun were in 1968. I won't embarrass you by asking for the source of the codswallop, just advise 'don't trust it'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 You're a tad off track there mate. The was no '1st generation Light Gun'. Light Gun entered service in 1975, I know this for as fact because at the time I was doing a 12 month course at RSA and did a factory visit to ROF Nottingham, which awash with Light Guns under construction for the Brit Army. Before this the Brit Army used the Oto-Melara 105mm How (Pack How in UK service, introduced c. 1963) and I used these 1965-68 in Borneo and UK. If you are interested in the history of the 105mm Light Gun then see http://nigelef.tripod.com/p_105ltgun.htm . This site knows what it is talking about. You'll note that trials of the prototype Light Gun were in 1968. I won't embarrass you by asking for the source of the codswallop, just advise 'don't trust it'! Completely on track 100% and I am not your mate ! the source being a 1st Generation L118 gun 'The 1968 prototype' or one of them anyway is currently in my workshop under going a full restoration. The Gun has a full history and there is not another like it. You seem to think you know it all ............................very sad Rob....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Being an Expert you'll be able to tell me more about the 1 Ton Hydraulic jack that was fitted to the 1st Generation L118 Light Gun Prototype of 1968 ?.............yes Still after info on this Type of Jack if anyone sensible can help. Rob.....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Rob, Do you have a photo or illustration of the type of jack you need info on? It might help? Also just my own thoughts here on this subject. I have never seen (Or TBH looked for one!) an example. But thinking logically, would a normal readily available land rover jack have been used? I don't know for sure, just a thought That occurred to Me. It would make sense logistically, supply wise? :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) I'm quite sure you are right Mike ,you would think a standard Jack would have been supplied in the set up stage . The 1968 Manuals I have show the jack in a line drawing and its location but quite a basic description. 'Jack ,Hydraulic,1 Ton Light' I will scan the page and post it up . Cheers Rob............................rnixartillery. Edited December 12, 2015 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 A 1 Ton hydraulic jack would be light , very very very light , hardly something off-shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally dugan Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 ROB LAKE & ELLIOT were making 1 ton hydraulic jack in the 60s might be worth looking on their site to see if you can see one the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Okay ,Attached is a couple of pics (for the non believer's) from the pre production L118 LG Manual. This original manual shows the 1st generation Prototype that was quite different from the final approved product that went into service in 1975. You will notice that at this early stage the Jack strut (which was later adopted for speedy removal of the wheel to deploy the Gun ) was not an option and the use of a Hydraulic jack was the original idea. This manual is correct for the LG I am restoring as well as the gun being dated 1968 on most component's including the breech and barrel. I have the brackets fitted to the carriage but no jack ! With this prototype the wheel is not actually removed to traverse the saddle, before jacking up the piece you unlock the suspension by turning a suspension bump stop which once jacked up allows the wheel/hub to drop giving clearance for the saddle to turn and then reverse the sequence to deploy. Rob.....................rnixartillery Edited December 12, 2015 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonb Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I was an apprentice at ROF(N) in the early 70s and can remember the Light Guns being around along with the then new 101 Landrovers to tow them. Being also a wannabe TA gunner (O. Cdt.) I can recall being surprised at having to take a wheel off to bring the gun into action, much easier with our 25 Pdrs. Was there also something about not scratching the trail tubes? Seemed unlikely for a field weapon. Maybe they just didn't want us oiks damaging the paint. I also remember Eager Beavers being load tested: big concrete blocks on the forks and a chap with a stopwatch saying "GO" to the driver. And the odd directions they went in if the steering valves were wrong. gmb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 To have a 10" stroke with a 7" closed height, it must be two stage. I can't remember seeing a two stage jack that small but I'll have a look through my pile of jacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 The smallest commercial jack I can think of is the "Eversure" 30 cwt Hyd. bottle jack, DIY+++ kit but not industrial. I had one , I have still a Eversure Trolley Jack , purchased abt. 1970 , much used for changing VW Beetle engines , this design much copied but cheapened by the Chinese , I bent this up just last year lifting front end of a L'wt Land Rover (located under diff) - it will repair (jack on firm & level - not a river gravel drive LoL However I am certain it could only be a Eversure bumper jack , IIRC this was rated 1 ton. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=eversure+bottle+jack&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir6Njd6tbJAhVEPxoKHTvrC8kQsAQIUA&biw=1280&bih=900#imgrc=OhUh2KsawAtx3M%3A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) The smallest commercial jack I can think of is the "Eversure" 30 cwt Hyd. bottle jack, DIY+++ kit but not industrial. I had one , I have still a Eversure Trolley Jack , purchased abt. 1970 , much used for changing VW Beetle engines , this design much copied but cheapened by the Chinese , I bent this up just last year lifting front end of a L'wt Land Rover (located under diff) - it will repair (jack on firm & level - not a river gravel drive LoL However I am certain it could only be a Eversure bumper jack , IIRC this was rated 1 ton. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=eversure+bottle+jack&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir6Njd6tbJAhVEPxoKHTvrC8kQsAQIUA&biw=1280&bih=900#imgrc=OhUh2KsawAtx3M%3A http://mgaroadster.co.uk/eversure_jacks.htm Scroll down for details of the several models - all pre-fix BJ , unfortunately the capacity seems unknown , some would be greater than others , likewise lift it seems QUOTE. It is a hydraulic lift from 3" to 15" from the ground. Overall length is 19". Edited December 12, 2015 by ruxy spelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) Technically speaking the prototype L118 should be called XL118, although the British Army has never been overly fussed about this practice. L118 only really refers to the first version that entered service, ie it is the OB approved service pattern. No doubt somewhere there is a MOD(PE) (more likely earlier) instruction about this, and is still valid (the Land Service numbering system was introduced c.1955 before MOD(PE) existed). This is Military Nomenclature 101. Interestingly the subsequent modifications such as fitting the MV radar, digital sights and other mods do not seem to have resulted in a redesignation to L118A1 (AFAIK). 'Generation' is not a term in the military lexicon with regards to equipment versions, I'm always happy to help the under-informed in these matters. Re the jack issue, I'd suggest that the prototype used whatever was to hand and was vaguely suitable. Part of the military trials is to ensure that these is an appropriate CES (Complete Equipment Schedule). Edited December 31, 2015 by watcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Dear Rob and others, I had a conversation with Rob by email last year on the subject of the wheels for the 105mm light gun and if he knew of a source for spare wheels as it is common to the 1 tonne Land Rover 101"FC prime mover. I had assumed, wrongly it seems, that the Land Rover used a six stud wheel because that is what the gun had, to provide a spare for both the gun and the truck. Today, while reading James Taylor's book on the 1 tonne I noticed a picture on page 35 shows a prototype pulling the 105mm gun, upon closer inspection I notice the gun has a 5 stud wheel but the Land Rover has six studs. So, from this, can we assume that the final design of the gun was changed to suit the design of the Land Rover? Comments please? Robin Craig Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Any reference to them being off the Series IIA or IIB forward controls as I seem to remember these being 5 stud but having different wheels to the standard series Land Rovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_ROF Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I have a few images of a prototype / pre-production Light Gun and others of the first production L118 at the official hand-over ceremony - the official date of acceptance was October 1974. All these were taken at Royal Ordnance Factory Nottingham. These show the pre-production gun with the 5 stud wheels and the production gun with the 6 stud wheels. Another image I have of a lightweight land rover, towing a BML also at ROF(N), seems to have the same 5-stud wheel as the pre-production gun. Out of interest none of the images I have of the prototype gun show a jack and handle in the locations shown in the manual. At one time, many years ago now, I was the PDS officer at Nottingham for Light Gun and I must admit I was not aware of the early versions using a jack for the wheel removal action. However there were a large number of changes incorporated into the design following the development trials and this was apparently one of them. Would be interested in seeing a picture of the completed article when the restoration work is complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 The rims are 6 stud on this LG ,I have stripped the hubs and they are as new so I'm assuming they have been changed quite recently. Rob.....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_ROF Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Rob Here is a picture of a prototype L118 taken in the main factory workshop at ROF Nottingham. Be interesting to see how close / different this is to your version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Rob Here is a picture of a prototype L118 taken in the main factory workshop at ROF Nottingham. [ATTACH=CONFIG]112157[/ATTACH] Be interesting to see how close / different this is to your version. It is the same with the exception of the 6 stud hubs which as mentioned earlier have been changed over at some point. You are most welcome to view it if you are up in Yorkshire at any point. Rob.....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brmca Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I know a while has passed but just seen this .101 field regt were equipped with these which were destined for the Shar of Iran and were stopped on the docks when the tosspot Komeni displaced the Shar . Came to the unit in desert cam.the platform was removed from the trail fitted ,gun pulled back onto platform, hand spike in rear trail lifted,jack fitted, bear down on hand spike remove rh wheel spin barrel, refit wheel . Ready to load. The jack was about 18 in long with a round foot cut to fit on the circular platform. The jack was just a pipe with a foot. REME Tiffy wpns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifficer Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Hi Rob On the question of the hydraulic jack, looking at the drawing in the hand book the jack handle looks to be flat. The company who seems to use such handles is Lake and Elliot. They made a 1 ton jack (S646) and several have been on E-bay for as little as £5. This model is 7" closed so would seem to be the right one. There is a Lake and Elliot jack rage online, they made similar jacks up to 8 ton. I seem to remember when Light Gun first arrived at 100 Regt there was a similar jack around but I think they where also used on some 1 Tonne Forward Control Rovers. Regards Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifficer Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Rob After further research it might be a L & E M1DL, sorry a bit of finger trouble there. Check out olds British jacks. Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_ROF Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Hi, Finally managed to speak to an old ROF(Nottingham) Experimental and Development deparment colleague who worked with the RARDE(Fort Halstead) design and development team during the Light Gun design and development program - he went on to work on Light Gun all through production and onto PDS Support including the US M119 work. He seems to remember that the early hydraulic jacks were made in the toolroom from scratch at ROFN but that these were abandoned after the jack-struct concept was developed as this proved simpler and lighter. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifficer Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I wish I'd asked a family member who worked at Fort Halstead, he worked on light gum ballistics. He passed away 3 years ago, his name was Peter Fuller, a top ballistics and high speed photography expert, your friend might have known him. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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