question Sten gun stocks

[WCMatt]

Hello List!

With regard to the MK.II Sten gun specifically, I've noticed two types of stocks in general use. One is in the outline of a rifle butt stock while the other is a "T" shape. Was the difference in the two the result of different contractors making them or was there some other reason? Maybe one was prefered by the Infantry while the other was prefered by Paras or AFV crews?

 

On a similar note: What was the basic load out of Sten magazines for the British Tommy (durning WWII)?

 

Matt

[RAFMT]

iirc the rifle butt shaped version was made first, but replaced by the "T" butt which was easier and cheaper to manufacture as it was used a tube and two bits of plate cut to shape.

As for the load out, stens weren't generally carried by the average infantry private, they tended to be issued to the corporal i/c the section who should, according the manual, carry 5 magazines.

[ferretfixer]

There is also a Two piece tubed stock that was issued with the MK.I Sten as well.

 

The Rifle Butt profile stock is Canadian Manufacture. There SHOULD be two small clips in the bottom run. For securing an 'L' shaped Cleaning rod. It Is common for these clips to be missing. :angel:

Edited July 15, 2015 by ferretfixer

[.303fan]

And a short pistol type stock for para troopers if i recall correctly.

[Chris Hall]

Hopefully I remember this correctly,

 

Butt No.1 Mk1 introduced with STEN Mk1 Pilot and early production models.

Butt No.2 Mk1 introduced with STEN Mk1 Later models. Made by U&U (Unique and Unity)

Butt No.2 Mk2 introduced with STEN Mk2 Early examples made by U&U using the cast abutment plate of the No.1 Mk2

Butt No.3 Mk1 introduced with STEN MK3 made by Lines Brothers and then by Long Branch of Canada (Subtle differences)

 

I may have the Butt numbers slightly wrong because I can't remember where the Butt No.3 came into it.

 

Anyway, the T stock was the first of the common types followed by the loop butt (Rifle profile) not the other way around. The T Stock involved 5 parts to make, the abutment plate, the tube, the butt plate, the reinforcing plate and the machined stud on the abutment plate. All this had to be jigged and then welded. The loop stock has 2 pieces and one weld and is much more economical to produce. Now the STEN Mk2 and 3 were designed at the same time and the butts were also designed at the same time but the Mk2 was introduced before the Mk3. You only need look at the lineage of the Mk3 to see it is a simplification of the Mk1 not the Mk2

Edited July 15, 2015 by Chris Hall

[RAFMT]

Thanks Chris, I knew one came before the other but couldn't remember which way round without mounting an expedition into the book cupboard!

[WCMatt]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm aware that the Sten would have been issued to NCOs while the average Infantryman carried a rifle. Wasn't sure how many mags were carried by the Standard Sten tote'n Tommy, though. So it was five? Wonder if the paras carried more? Would make them come down faster......:cool2:

 

 

Matt

[ferretfixer]

Radio Operators & SOME Drivers were also issued a Sten.

Some infantry Officers also chose to carry a Sten.

 

Special Pouches were introduced for Sten mags later in service. They had dividing web 'sperators' in each pouch.

To prevent the mags from rattling, & to reduce rubbing together & wearing off the protective finish.

Each pouch held 3 Magazines.

 

Paras were also issued a Bandolieur that had a wide shoulder strap. I cant remember how many mags it held.

But I THINK it was ten? :red:

[WCMatt]

Radio Operators & SOME Drivers were also issued a Sten.

Some infantry Officers also chose to carry a Sten. I think that was similar for the American Army as well. Rifles for Infantry, SMGs for NCOs and carbines for members of crew served weapons & pistols for officers. There were exceptions though both official & unofficial. Don't think I'd want to go into modern combat armed only with a pistol.

Special Pouches were introduced for Sten mags later in service. They had dividing web 'sperators' in each pouch.

To prevent the mags from rattling, & to reduce rubbing together & wearing off the protective finish.

Each pouch held 3 Magazines.

 

Paras were also issued a Bandolieur that had a wide shoulder strap. I cant remember how many mags it held.

But I THINK it was ten? :red:

I vauguely remember those & it was one of the reasons why I asked about how many mags were issued per SMG.

 

 

Matt

[ferretfixer]

Six Magazines.

[Enfield1940]

Special Pouches were introduced for Sten mags later in service. They had dividing web 'separators' in each pouch.

To prevent the mags from rattling, & to reduce rubbing together & wearing off the protective finish.

Each pouch held 3 Magazines.

Sten specific magazine pouches came in two flavours: grey/blue ones for the RAF and khaki ones which are actually cut down RN Lanchester SMG magazine pouches. The former were WWII production. The latter are slightly more mysterious and may be postwar conversions. I have a left and right pair of the RAF pouches (the LH one has a sub-pouch on the front for a Mk1 magazine loading tool) and neither have internal dividers.

 

Sten magazines were mostly carried in ordinary MkIII 1937 Pattern basic pouches.

[Enfield1940]

Re-opening the fascinating subject of Sten pouches... I was lucky enough to find a very reasonably priced example of the rare left-hand RAF Sten pouch in a rummage box at W&P this year. So for my own amusement I have put together a putative 'RAF personnel armed with the Sten Machine Carbine' webbing set. For reasons unknown the right hand pouch has been overdyed (not blancoed) dark blue.

 

[WCMatt]

That is one very nice set up. Thank you for posting!

Matt