Tabby.

[Karoshi]

Clive I see there is some Tabby equipment on e-bay right now:

 

Item number: 6572953737

 

Just thought you'd like to know.

 

Colin

[fv1609]

Colin. Yes thank you that is interesting. Unfortunately the sale has ended so I doubt if the seller wants to answer any questions about it now. I wish the pics were better & there were some dimensions given as the was only one size of converter tube made during the war. Although there were different types, they were all the same & given a designation according to how well they performed on test.

 

Tabby is often used as a generic name, so I am not sure if it wartime as such. It strikes me odd that having such a thing that it remains untested. I have never seen one like that before it is surprisingly small for wartime. It would have been interesting to see what the other numbers were. Type CX is odd, there was a small simple monocular Tabby Type C but when that was improved it became Type D.

 

I have 4 IR articles here. I have nearly updated the British article & about to put it into pdf. When you see it you will see how bulky even the Type K monocular was.

[Karoshi]

So so many years ago I bought a Tabby IR spot light, with an IR gell over the glass. Threw the gell away. Ist car student, on a very tight budget. Bought it from Tommy Best in Bath, now long gone.

 

If I knew then what I know now........

 

Good luck with the research

 

Karoshi

[AndyT]

Just wondered whether you chaps ever came across Tabby? It was an infa red device for AFV's and non AFV's developed in UK and in service from 44 on. I used to work as a volunteer at MAT, Beverley and they had one complete and one partial set. I sent photocopy diagrams to MAFVA magazine many many moons ago but sadly didn't keep copies-would I be right in thinking that all the collection ended up dahn sarf at the REME museum? If so could East Yorkshore get back a large metal trunk full of the records of Brough Batallion Home Guard? :-)

[AndyT]

I realise that this was posted many moons ago but thought I should post a reply as its VERY relevant. I have seen, handled and read the Tabby manual and it was called Tabby from the VERY start-well certainly in terms of publication. The manual was wartime and showed installation on a variety of WW2 vehicles-Churchill, 15cwt, jeep, Buffalo etc-so perhaps we could intimate that it was being issued for the Rhine Crossings...?

[fv1609]

I realise that this was posted many moons ago but thought I should post a reply as its VERY relevant. I have seen, handled and read the Tabby manual and it was called Tabby from the VERY start-well certainly in terms of publication. The manual was wartime and showed installation on a variety of WW2 vehicles-Churchill, 15cwt, jeep, Buffalo etc-so perhaps we could intimate that it was being issued for the Rhine Crossings...?

 

 

Andy, I too have handled Tabby equipment & have several different types & a significant collection of wartime documents & corresponded with IR enthusiasts around the world. I had my first bit of Tabby equipment I think exactly 50 years ago, although as a boy I couldn't get it to work but that is another story!

 

I stand by what I said in

http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/Tabby01.pdf

 

The main references for that article were drawn from these documents that I have:

 

AFV School, Lulworth. AFVP/MSC/45 How to use your eyes in the dark. Medical Research Council Laboratory 1945

Barr & Stroud Ltd. Development drawings. Receivers, Tabby, Type ‘E’, Periscope No.1. July 1945

Barr & Stroud Ltd. Development drawings. Tabby Type ‘M’ (Tank Periscope) April 1945

Director of Tank Design. Night driving equipment installation kit specifications. December 1942

Military Science Today. Lt.Col.D.Portway R.E. Circa 1944

Ministry of Supply. Record of R&D. Report No 8.300. Ultra-violet light for vehicle lighting & reconnaissance 1939-41

Ministry of Supply. 118/156 Instructions for operating Equipment Tabby Type ‘E’ 1943

Ministry of Supply. 118/157 Instructions for installing Equipment Tabby Type ‘E’ Churchill. May 1943

Ministry of Supply. 118/159 Instructions for installing Equipment Tabby Type ‘E’ Crusader. May 1943

Ministry of Supply. 118/160 Instructions for installing Equipment Tabby Type ‘E’ Cromwell, Cavalier, Centaur. July 1943

Ministry of Supply. 118/DOT Instructions for installing Equipment Tabby Type ‘E’ Mk II & III

Most Secret War, British Scientific Intelligence 1939-1945. R.V.Jones. 1978

RAC School of Tank Technology. Notes on Infra-red. 1960

RAC Specialised Armour Establishment. Trial Report Vol. 2. 1951

War Office Code No.7019 Visual Training. Pamphlet No.1. Observation & Concealment. 1946

Wheels & Tracks. Tabby night-driving equipment. 1995

 

The book you are refering to I think is 118/DOT. That covered :

Austin 6x4

Ford WOT2

Churchill Types I-VI

Ford WOT6

Universal Carrier No.2 Mk II

Lloyd Carrier Tracked Towing C

Sherman Mk V & Mk III

Daimler Armoured Car Mk I

Lloyd Personnel Carrier Mks I & II

 

LVT was not included in that publication but more hastily made diagrams were later produced as an appendix to instructions on how to install various equipment for the Rhine crossing. This included a DF system based on 19 Sets known as Ground Aerial System developed by Lt-Col L.Rhys-Jones GSO 1 (Technical) 79 Armoured Div & some REME officers who are not identified. The installation work for all this equipment was undertaken by Workshop (1 Brigade Workshop REME). Although Tabby was installed it was intended as a back up to the 19 Set “coming in on a beam” method. Accounts of the crossing indicate that the 19 Sets worked well & Tabby was not needed as Artificial Moonlight was used to good effect.

 

The first reference to the use of the term Tabby, I can find was Dec 1942. RG equipment was the term used before that. I have a MoS schedule of contractors, R&D (Admiralty & EMI), inspectors, contracts, design, production, WO liaison. All the names of individuals concerned including their telephone numbers! But RG equipment is the term they used not Tabby. Even when the converter tubes were made they were given RG numbers which later assumed CV type numbers. Even Tabby Type E binoculars were originally designated RG Binoculars Type 6.

 

BTW I already have a scan of 118/156, which are general Tabby Type E operating instructions. When I get time I’ll ask Jack to put them in a pdf & post them up for general perusal.

 

 

[AndyT]

that does ring a bell! :-D I'm so pleased that someone out there has researched the topic and that its not a dead subject as this is one of the more widely unknowns of WW2 isn't it? Amazing topic as before I saw that device over 10 years ago now I never knew that our boffins had developed one-I thought the Barr and Stroud devices fitted on Chieftans were soley based on the German Uhu-but apparently not!

Thanks

Andy

[fv1609]

that does ring a bell! :-D I'm so pleased that someone out there has researched the topic and that its not a dead subject as this is one of the more widely unknowns of WW2 isn't it? Amazing topic as before I saw that device over 10 years ago now I never knew that our boffins had developed one-I thought the Barr and Stroud devices fitted on Chieftans were soley based on the German Uhu-but apparently not!

Thanks

Andy

 

 

Andy, I wish Timewatch or a history channel would do a documentary on it there is a lot to tell. We all know about the wonders of radar etc but IR both near & far were largely overlooked by GB.

 

In R V Jones's book the govt attitude to proper exploition of IR is summed up in the chapter "Inferior Red". The Tizard committe seemed more excited by defending the country with baloon mounted aerial mines & plans to floodlight the whole of southern England every night to spot bombers than triffle with IR. despite Jones demonstrating that far IR could detect aicraft engine heat at some useful distance.

 

The first night vision system by Baird, Noctovision was never properly exploited. The US DD were not interested in RCAs IR vision system, the British (Admiralty) were only interested in IR for signalling & the German military authorities were not impressed with the IR developments of their scientists. But what do scientists do, they talk to other scientists & in the mid 1930s a series of detail description were published on how to make IR systems. The British role was to adapt what the Germans had done, but refine it to mass produce IR kit, which in the end never got used in anger!

 

 

[Tony B]

Trouble is Tabby and Vampir (Remember the Man From UNCLE and the THRUSH guns?) was it was an idea before it's time. Try towing 15,0000 batterys around and worrying about thermionic vavlves. :-D The real secret about modern techno toys is solid state and low current draw. Just think of the size and battery drain of the old mobile phones. For those of us who remeber 'First Generation I.I. devices', all of about 15 years ago, just look at what you can buy now.

[fv1609]

Trouble is Tabby and Vampir (Remember the Man From UNCLE and the THRUSH guns?) was it was an idea before it's time. Try towing 15,0000 batterys around and worrying about thermionic vavlves. :-D The real secret about modern techno toys is solid state and low current draw. Just think of the size and battery drain of the old mobile phones. For those of us who remeber 'First Generation I.I. devices', all of about 15 years ago, just look at what you can buy now.

 

 

AFAIK Tony the only units with a direct battery HT were the Zamboni piles used in hand held devices like Type K. With virtually no current drain as the tubes were cold cathodes, each cell of the battery was a thin coated disc about the diameter of a 2p piece. Vehicle based power units were a vibrator giving awful square waves into an ignition coil to get the HT. In fact one system tried was powered by the ignition system of the vehicle - not very successful!

 

My Tabby Type E is now powered by a little transistor inverter around a small toroid I found in TV set & a Cockcroft-Walton multiplier to get the required HT. Very little battery drain now & very portable.

[Tony B]

How did they get them to generate IR from a cold cathode? I can see the vibrator giving a square wave, and I suppose rotary inverters were just to big and noisy. But surley the wave would have to be rectified back to give DC?

[fv1609]

How did they get them to generate IR from a cold cathode? I can see the vibrator giving a square wave, and I suppose rotary inverters were just to big and noisy. But surley the wave would have to be rectified back to give DC?

 

 

The anode is IR sensitive, when IR energy hits it then it releases electrons that are detected by a silver-caesium oxide photo-cathode 5mm away causing it to glow.

 

Rotary converters would work but that level of power was not needed. The tube needs 3kv but some were selected to withstand 6.5kv, which gave more sensitivity with a brighter glow.

 

The actual current needed was minimal 0.000000001 amps. The problem with the Zamboni was that it had to be absolutely dry & they had a high internal resistance of 10 gigohms. A vibrator supply was preferable for a vehicle installation. In fact there were two vibrators, one to supply the Lucas 12v ignition coil & another to go to a transformer for the filament of a Mullard HV1 valve diode rectifier. The HT ac supply went to the anode & the DC was drawn from the filament which clearly had to be floating WRT earth, so you couldn't tap this off from the battery.

[Tony B]

Thanks Clive, I was thinking transmit IR not receive IR.

[palmal]

Hi everyone ..my name is Mal and i have only just registered on the forum after seeing this thread on the tabby night vision.....I have in my possession one of the tabby range but not the water bottle type... This is a single scope about 7 inches/180mm long with a separate zamboni? battery ...It is in a large wooden box marked handle like eggs ref no 5c/2801 storage for receiver ref no 5c/2264 serial no ZL04 ...Try as i will , i cannot find this reference no anywhere.If any info on this model is is available i would be interested as i have only come across one and that was a water bottle type

[fv1609]

Mal, thats an RAF Vocabulary item. I think was probably for use with an IFF beacon. I had a similar RAF item, but no power source. I'll see if I've got a picture. Can you post a picture of what you have there?

[fv1609]

Here it is 5C/3157 in box 5C/3199.

 

[palmal]

Hi mate, I will post a picture as soon as i can figure how..I dont know if you have a size limit ,or number limit but if you have my apologies..I will get it right sooner or later...mal

[kafr8413]

AFAIK Tony the only units with a direct battery HT were the Zamboni piles used in hand held devices like Type K. With virtually no current drain as the tubes were cold cathodes, each cell of the battery was a thin coated disc about the diameter of a 2p piece. Vehicle based power units were a vibrator giving awful square waves into an ignition coil to get the HT. In fact one system tried was powered by the ignition system of the vehicle - not very successful!

 

My Tabby Type E is now powered by a little transistor inverter around a small toroid I found in TV set & a Cockcroft-Walton multiplier to get the required HT. Very little battery drain now & very portable.

 

I am trying to find oit if any of the original Zamboni piles that were used in the IR devices is still operational. Has anyone ever heard of a unit that still works with the original Zamboni pile?

I am trying to remake one and was curious is the fabled Zamboni lifespan (over 100 years) had been achieved by the copies that the British made in the 40's

 

So has anyone ever heard of one that still works?

 

Thank You,

Paul

[fv1609]

Paul, I had a Tabby Type K in the 1950s & the piles were dead then.

 

I cut the monocular open with a hacksaw & none of the 3 piles had any life. I experimented by getting some of the discs & soaking them in various chemicals in a very non-scientific schoolboy way & then dried them in the oven.

 

But could detect not the slightest voltage from groups of them piled in series. My recollection of each disc was metal foil coated with carbon one side. I remember the first Zamboni, I investigated, as I opened it the spring pushing them tightly together, propelled the discs into the air showering me with hundreds of these discs.

 

20 years ago I bought another Type K but not attacked that with a hacksaw.