HorseyGSXR Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Afternoon all I will be picking up a Shielder on Saturday and first job on the list is to get it registered. Has anyone put one of these on the road before? Is it the best plan to fill in a little as is possible? Or go the other way and save them having to ask for extra info? Now, I have a V55/5 and was wondering what I should enter for Box 2 - Tax Class. Don't think I can go for Historic as it looks like it will be verified as about 1999. Next choice is Private HGV, don't mind spending the £165 on tax but we have a quite a few 7.5t weight limits around here and that would restrict where I could go. Any other ideas? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks Antony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If you go across any structure with a weight limit and your vehicle exceeds that limit and you damage a bridge for example you are almost certain to invalidate your insurance and have a bill which might make you bankrupt, for damage to the structure and also consequential loss from anyone inconvenienced by the damage. Besides the actual weight has to be declared. Diana Afternoon all I will be picking up a Shielder on Saturday and first job on the list is to get it registered. Has anyone put one of these on the road before? Is it the best plan to fill in a little as is possible? Or go the other way and save them having to ask for extra info? Now, I have a V55/5 and was wondering what I should enter for Box 2 - Tax Class. Don't think I can go for Historic as it looks like it will be verified as about 1999. Next choice is Private HGV, don't mind spending the £165 on tax but we have a quite a few 7.5t weight limits around here and that would restrict where I could go. Any other ideas? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks Antony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 What Diana says is correct - weight limits have nothing to do with the taxation class and everything to do with how much the vehicle weighs. I think the Shielder is around 13 tonnes so 7.5 tonne limits definitely apply! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseyGSXR Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Hi Completely agree with a limit on a bridge for instance. But a weight limit that applies to goods vehicles only ie 7.5t limit through a town centre, can be driven through by a bus for example that is over 7.5t gross as it is not a goods vehicle. What I am getting at is can anyone think of another taxation class other than PHGV that would be valid on the form? i read about one that the DVLA registered as PLG but I thought that was only ever for vehicles 3.5t and under. thanks Antony Edited June 9, 2015 by HorseyGSXR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Make sure you're not confusing revenue weights, unladen weights and gross weights (doesn't sound as though you are, but plenty do) 3.5 tonnes gross for PLG only applies if it's a goods vehicle (which strictly speaking, Shielder is, being an HMLC) - if it's not a goods vehicle, weight doesn't matter for PLG. If you're using it 'as is' privately, Private HGV sounds like the correct taxation class - it is, after all, a goods vehicle being used privately. I don't know how things work for what is effectively a tracked HGV though. Normally the only way to take a goods vehicle out of the goods vehicle taxation classes is to make it not a goods vehicle by some sort of permanent modification. Have you looked at V355/1? https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/360119/V355X1_140714.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseyGSXR Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hi Sean Yes I have looked at that. As with anything DVLA/DVSA there is a certain amount of who interprets it and how. I personally don't see as a goods vehicle in the traditional sense, even more so as I don't want to be restricted by goods vehicles weight limits. I can't put it down as Historic like it seems a lot of tracked vehicles end up as. That brings me back to PLG - What is the definition of a motor car? Again in the traditional sense probably not a Shielder. But is does also say 'vehicles used for "private" (non-trade or business) purposes' OR Vehicles registered on or after 01/03/01 that do not come in to the scope of the first six tax classes, listed below (Petrol Car, Diesel Car, Alternative Fuel Car, Light Goods Vehicle, Euro 4 Light Goods Vehicle or Euro 5 Light Goods Vehicle) The second reply down on this link http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?41589-Registering-a-CVRT-Sabre/page2 the chaps Spartan came back as PLG which weighs a little more than a Shielder. I am waiting to hear from my local MVT to come out to verify it for me, hopefully they will have some input. Antony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) If The weight limit is 7.5 tonnes then that is exactly what it is. It matters not whether the vehicle is a tractor, lorry, car, van, artic, armoured vehicle. If you believe that your vehicle is possibly exempt from a limit then the only safe was is to contact the police/local council and get it in writing - something they would be loathe to do in my opinion. Likewise the speed limit for a tracked vehicle with rubber pads is 20MPH whereas for a tracked vehicle with no pads, just steel is 10MPH - not something I was told when I was taught to drive a tracked vehicle. The advice I received if I wish to take my tracked vehicle onto the nearby motorway is confer with the local Police, since it is probably safer to use the motorway than to go on the local side roads. Diana Edited June 10, 2015 by Diana and Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseyGSXR Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hi Diane There are weight limits and there are goods vehicle weight limits. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/312176/the-highway-code-signs-giving-orders.pdf The sign top left on the second page of that link is applicable to all vehicles, where as the sign on the bottom right of the first page is only applicable to goods vehicles. Therefore, if I can get the Shielder register as something other than a goods vehicle the sign on the first page would not be applicable. Your point about the speed limits, I only found out about that the other day. Though I have seen a handful of videos of people driving on the road at greater than 20mph. You are almost more of a danger driving at 20 than keeping with the flow of traffic, certainly on motorway - but thems the rules! What vehicles do you have and what taxation class are they registered under? Thanks Antony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 In the olden days there was a sign at the side of the slip road to a motorway which prohibited certain vehicles and a TRACKED VEHICLE was one of them. Has this restriction been removed or is it still illegal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) It used to also say invalid carriages too and L drivers - I haven't seen one for years plenty of videos on YouTube showing tracked vehicles on Motorways though. https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/general-253-to-254 So agricultural vehicle - an armoured vehicle is not an agricultural vehicle though. In the olden days there was a sign at the side of the slip road to a motorway which prohibited certain vehicles and a TRACKED VEHICLE was one of them. Has this restriction been removed or is it still illegal ? Edited June 10, 2015 by Diana and Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseyGSXR Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 I like the ambiguity of 'certain slow-moving vehicles'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Ferret and a Spartan The Ferret is classed as a tractor - but that doesn't mean it is an agricultural vehicle, personally speaking the rules are not fit for purpose as some true agricultural vehicles can go these days at up to 60MPH, things have moved on - which is a lot faster than some car drivers do. Diana I like the ambiguity of 'certain slow-moving vehicles'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 You need to read the Construction & Use regs and possibly the Special Types regs to determine what class best suits the vehicle for registration purposes. Having established that the taxation class may become clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Hi Sean Yes I have looked at that. As with anything DVLA/DVSA there is a certain amount of who interprets it and how. I personally don't see as a goods vehicle in the traditional sense, even more so as I don't want to be restricted by goods vehicles weight limits. I can't put it down as Historic like it seems a lot of tracked vehicles end up as. That brings me back to PLG - What is the definition of a motor car? Again in the traditional sense probably not a Shielder. But is does also say 'vehicles used for "private" (non-trade or business) purposes' OR Vehicles registered on or after 01/03/01 that do not come in to the scope of the first six tax classes, listed below (Petrol Car, Diesel Car, Alternative Fuel Car, Light Goods Vehicle, Euro 4 Light Goods Vehicle or Euro 5 Light Goods Vehicle) The second reply down on this link http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?41589-Registering-a-CVRT-Sabre/page2 the chaps Spartan came back as PLG which weighs a little more than a Shielder. I am waiting to hear from my local MVT to come out to verify it for me, hopefully they will have some input. Antony Unfortunately, what you see it as doesn't matter - it's a question of what it is, or what DVSA / VOSA / HM Constabulary see it as. Spartan is a distraction as although it's CVR(T) based, it's a different body type - it might not look it, but as a 7 seater it's essentially an MPV! I started to write a long answer here based on my understanding and previous experience, but at the end of the day I'm not a road traffic lawyer and there are a number of reasons not to get into too in depth a discussion here, not least that Jack would prefer we didn't. At the end of the day, it's your call. My advice would be: Read Construction and Use (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/contents/made), the Road Traffic Act (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents) and any other necessary legislation and guidance. Don't confuse what you think it ought to be and what it really is. A goods vehicle is a 'motor vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage of goods or burden'. Shielder is designed as a load carrier. Draw your own conclusions. Don't confuse taxation class (essentially, what it's used for) with design (essentially, what it is) - the two inform each other, but aren't necessarily the same. For example, a Bedford MJ can be taxed private if it's used privately, but that doesn't make it any less a goods vehicle as far as driver licencing is concerned. Take legal advice if necessary. Be prepared to do something - change the body, fit equipment - to make it not a goods vehicle if you need to. Lots of people have registered lots of things as vehicle types or in taxation classes which sometimes stretch the definitions to breaking point. They may get away with it or they may not. Whether you do the same is up to you. Ferret and a Spartan The Ferret is classed as a tractor - but that doesn't mean it is an agricultural vehicle, personally speaking the rules are not fit for purpose as some true agricultural vehicles can go these days at up to 60MPH, things have moved on - which is a lot faster than some car drivers do. Diana I understood 'Tractor' as it applies to Ferret meant a 'Motor Tractor' i.e. a haulage vehicle, not an agricultural tractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 The DVLA may have different ideas about what is what, and yes I do know that a Shielder is not a Spartan. Correct - as per construction and use regs albeit that a tractor in the minds of the public has everything to do with farms, having said that I've only heard of one Ferret hauling anything. Diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseyGSXR Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Hi Diane Do you have it under the Tax Class of Agricultural Machine then? If so, what was your view within that heading? Off Road Tractor? Thanks Antony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Sean is correct in that a tractor may or may not be an agricultural machine (re: The Regs) . You will have to complete a 112G which is basically an exemption from testing. My local postoffice looked at it and threw it in the bin - so what that was all about goodness knows. On that I declared The Ferret a tractor, whichever way you go about it those vehicles cannot be tested ORDINARILY because of the fixed 4 wheel drive. There maybe other reasons. When I made some enquirers about a 4 wheel brake tester some time ago there wasn't one in South Wales I did have an exchange with the DVLA about the 112G because when you go to tax the vehicle (Ferret or otherwise) online you may not be able to because of deceleration of exemption, and there was no way last year to do that online, stupid as it seems. Even the DVLA didnt know why that could not be done. Diana Hi Diane Do you have it under the Tax Class of Agricultural Machine then? If so, what was your view within that heading? Off Road Tractor? Thanks Antony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) ... and yes I do know that a Shielder is not a Spartan. ??? Correct - as per construction and use regs albeit that a tractor in the minds of the public has everything to do with farms, having said that I've only heard of one Ferret hauling anything. Diana Sorry, I read you as talking about agricultural tractors. Antony, a 'tractor' is just a vehicle that's designed to pull something - agricultural tractors are just a specialist version. A 'motor tractor' in the Ferret etc. sense is a heavy haulage vehicle of a certain weight. Edited June 11, 2015 by Sean N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Brake testing of vehicles not suitable to go on a rolling road is carried out using a Tapley meter in a dynamic test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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