eddy8men Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 turret basket was actually harder than the turret to remove as it was a little tricky getting round the rotary base junction without tearing the cables out which would have been a disaster as there are loads of cables and they are all blue and have no markings at all (genius) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 engine and box painted the correct post war blue, unfortunately when they were converted to jordanian spec they were painted silver and will be again but I thought it important to put all the paint history back on them. who knows in a hundred years from now someone will give it a refurb and find the different layers and see it's lineage from wartime drab to blue to silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 few pics of the rotary base junction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 lauren came over a couple of weeks ago and whilst looking for unit markings under the top coat of paint found this delamination on the glacis plate which could be battle damage although there is no distortion of the plate, I found the same thing on the side of my Churchill near to the impacts from anti tank rockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Interesting, do you think there might be a welded-up impact mark further down, under the paint? trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I couldn't see any impact marks inside or out but there is a bit of a ding in the plate welded over the old besa hole and it's in line with the delamination, (it's above the area I removed the paint from). we'll have to sand blast it to get a better look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 the engine and box were originally blue and then during the chris Wilkinson conversion for the Jordanians they were painted silver but I couldn't make my mind up whether the engine was painted silver just on top ie. in situ or whether it was all over silver. looking back on the pics before the engine was rebuilt I decided on all over. looks quite smart in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Rick, Chris only supplied kits of parts for the traverse, there was no general conversion done. Mine still has an engine in eau-de-nil. The rest of the interior including engine bay and gearbox is the pale cream/sand. You can see silver underneath inside but that is the old British Army finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lssah2025 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Looking good,,,,still wish that would be ending up in my garage...:embarrassed:... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Looking good,,,,still wish that would be ending up in my garage...:embarrassed:... It still might, if the steering adjustment is off... I still cannot get over the rate of progress, that is a lot of heavy metal to be playing with! trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 don't tempt fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 O ye of little faith ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 thanks Adrian for putting me right on chris wilkinson's role in things. I had assumed that because the jordanain conversion was a little rough and ready, that it had been done by a guy in a yard with a gas axe and a collection of large hammers. no offence intended to chris Wilkinson or his associates but it was definitely a no frills job ! anyway looks like someone else did it. the engine and box had been painted silver which I again assumed was done while in the uk but I am now beginning to think the Israeli's put it through a refurb programme after it was captured, which included a partial strip down and sand blasting, this would explain the lack of markings under the top coat (that was applied while it sat in the IOW museum) I had expected to find the tanks history the further through the layers of paint we went but it turned out that there were only the recent top coat, then a darker (probably Israeli) sand under it and a grey primer beneath that. shame it could have told us a lot about it's history. I guess a trip down to the tank museum archives is on the cards for lauren :-D engine before refurb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 As far as I know the conversion was carried out by the Jordanians themselves. Chris told me he set up a demo using parts he had in stock. I understood this to be just the parts connected together, not involving a vehicle. They then ordered fifty sets. He also supplied roadwheels he was buying from Pounds, they came off the Centaur dozers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 As far as I know the conversion was carried out by the Jordanians themselves. Chris told me he set up a demo using parts he had in stock. I understood this to be just the parts connected together, not involving a vehicle. They then ordered fifty sets. He also supplied roadwheels he was buying from Pounds, they came off the Centaur dozers. What conversion took place, from what to what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) All very interesting stuff; would I be right in thinking that all the Charioteers were created from Cromwells in one batch in the UK and the Jordanian mods were some form of life extension in the late 50s or 60s to the ones they had purchased from the UK during our disposal of demobed Charioteers? On the other hand, did the Jordanians purchase brand new Charioteers fresh from the conversion program at the same time that they went into British Army use? Edited February 10, 2015 by ajmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 the charioteers used the Cromwell hydraulic pump driven from the bevel box at the front of the engine, whereas the Jordanians used the electro hydraulic system from the Sherman to power the turret traverse gearbox. the left hand pic shows the electric motor low down in the hull and the traverse gearbox above it. right pic is the gearbox. out on the bench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 From what I can tell, there's a different radio system as well, and the ammunition stowage looked different at the front (behind the blanked off hull gunner position). Without comparing with another Charioteer it's difficult to say though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 all the bits we removed from the turret/basket have now been repaired and painted ready for refitting. the turret basket floor plates have been cut and I am just waiting on the ply to be cnc cut then we can assemble it. it's a bit of a strange construction in so much as the top and bottom steel sheets have a lip formed over the edge of the ply which is soldered to a band running along the edge. i'm quite looking forward to the having a go at some soldering on such a large scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_bish Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 coming on very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 thanks paul picked the ply up today but wasn't ready til late so while we were waiting I stripped the output flanges from the gearbox and removed the seals. unfortunately my local supplier didn't stock any replacements and will have to have the seals custom made, however I might have a supply for nos seals but won't know til Friday. once I get them it's a simple job to fit them and put the brakes back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadawg Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 the crane guy finally arrived and I think we made his day lifting a tank turret, makes a change from shipping containers.[ATTACH=CONFIG]101345[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]101346[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]101347[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]101348[/ATTACH] With all this scruffy expertise (I mean this as a compliment), I expected you guys to build some kind of A frame they used to haul stones for Egyptian pyramids or concoct a lifting routine using floor jacks and timbers. That's how they lift houses before moving them... I imagine hiring a crane is not a cheap exercise. How heavy is that turret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadawg Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 This thread is inspirational. So much progress in such short time, all I can say is "wow!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 funny you should say that as I was coming up with a plan b if the crane guy let me down one more time but he came good in the end for £150, the crane was 66ton meter and was at 90% when we moved it across but it was extended, I reckon the turret weighs around 5ton. as to progress I must admit i'm a little frustrated at how slow it is but when something is 70 years old I suppose it's inevitable. having said that by Friday I want the hull interior blasted and painted and the turret basket floor finished ready for fitting and the gearbox back together and fitted, I plan to connect all the hydraulics and test them before anything else is done, once i'm happy we can start to fit the main assemblies back in the engine bay after which there is the rads and elecs to sort and we will be running ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 unfortunately my local supplier didn't stock any replacements and will have to have the seals custom made, however I might have a supply for nos seals but won't know til Friday. Rick, let me know what size / style the seals are, I have a contact down here who may be able to source them (pattern not NOS though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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