question Commandeered vehicles

[Roof Over Britain]

Maybe I have given this the wrong title but I had to put something in the heading. Anyway here is the question.

If a civilian vehicle was commandeered at the beginning of or during WW2 for military service, would it have

A. been returned to it's original owner when no longer required, and

B. would it still be registered under it's original registration number.

This question has arisen over a M/cycle that a friend has recently purchased. It was originally registered in 193? However the registration number it now carries was issued to it in 1946. So why would it have a new number issued in 1946? one explanation may be that it was in military service and was demobbed and returned to it's owner in 1946 (same owner as first registered it new).

Whilst that may explain the re- registration I am not really convinced about the commandeered bit since I doubt that the British Army would have been that short of M/Cs that they would need to commandeer civilian machines - or perhaps they were - can anyone shed any light? Or come up with another explanation for the re-registration.

[wally dugan]

JOHN

Commandeered vehicles is a very interesting subject the original owners were paid for there vehicles so they became

government property some people gave there cars to the government due to the shortage of fuel if the vehicle was in service with one of the three armed forces it would have been given a census number on release after the war it would be

given a new registration number as with any ex military vehicle IF how ever it was in service with a government department

IE fire service/post office and such it would have kept its original civilian number MONTGOMERYs rolls is a example of a

wartime commandeered vehicle hope this helps some way

 

REGARDS WALLY

[wally dugan]

JOHN

I have found some of my notes on the subject the first act that gave the government real power to requisition items

came in 1914 in the DEFENCE OF THE REALM ACT this gave wide spread powers to requisitioning any items need for the war effort horses/land etc the act was amended in 1939 and became the EMERGENCY POWERS { DEFENCE } ACT this act gave the government even wider powers When the second world war began there was a shortage of vehicles needed to conduct

a modern war due to cut backs in the inter war period 1920/1930s there was and may be still a act in place on these lines

there certainly there was one in place in the 1970/1980s

 

REGARDS WALLY

[Dusty]

John

Interesting question. My first thought was that as it received a new registration in 1946 then the motorcycle had been sold in one of the Ministry of Supply sales and being ex military would have had to have been registered in order to put it on the road.

 

But you state that this is a re-registration so that can't be the case here. Are you sure that it was used by the military? I have found a few civilian vehicles that were re-registered during the war with Government registration marks in the London C.C. range and were used by the National Fire Service, no idea why they did this and I don't know if the original owner received them back after the war. However this was in 1942 and I would think that 1946 was far too late to be indulging in such things.

 

Possibly the owner registered the motorcyle from new, then it was laid up when the owner was called-up and when he tried to tax it again in 1946 perhaps there was a problem. Maybe he had lost the log book or the motor taxation books at the local authority office had been destroyed in the blitz, either way perhaps the local authority decided the easiest way out of the problem was to re-register the motorcycle to the original owner.

 

Has the owner any paperwork such as log books which might show a change of ownership during the war? Perhaps you could reveal the two registration numbers as this might help to suggest other lines of enquiry or ideas.

 

 

Dusty

Edited June 3, 2014 by Dusty

[Roof Over Britain]

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

I must admit that there is no evidence for military service other than the dates and I think wishful thinking on the part of my friend the current owner.

Your suggestion Dusty of problematic taxing after the war is I think more likely.

The post war registration was a London number, HLR 752 but as far as I know LR was not a series of numbers used by the Home Office. I'm afraid I don't have the original pre war number to hand but I will check and see where it was originally registered.

As you say Wally, if it had been commandeered then the owner would have been paid for it and it is unlikely he would ever have seen it again.

I'll do a bit more digging and see what paperwork or records came along with the byke when I next speak to my friend.

Thanks for now

John

[woa2]

I contacted Bart Vanderveen about requisitioned cars some time ago. He told me that most cars, and I presume Motorcycles, were commandeered from Motor dealers stocks, so wouldn't have had number plates as they were not yet registered. Could be why the 1946 registration came up as it would just have had an army number painted on when requisitioned at the start of the War.

[Roof Over Britain]

Hi Robert,

Aye, the motor dealers stock bit makes sense, but in this case, the motorcycle had been owned and registered before the war, and it was the same owner who had it with it's new registration after the war.

Your mention of the Emergency Powers Act Wally makes me think that if it is still on the statute books, with the state our armed forces are in today there could be a lot of HMVF members vehicles commandeered if we get caught short!

[Toner]

Your mention of the Emergency Powers Act Wally makes me think that if it is still on the statute books, with the state our armed forces are in today there could be a lot of HMVF members vehicles commandeered if we get caught short!

 

Probably the only people who could maintain and use them would be their owners, so they might get drafted with their pride and joy. How does a spot of 'mandatory camping' sound?

[Morris C8]

Our 1938 Humber car was taken in 1939/40 and the goverment gave back in 1946 to the original owner, i think a government dept must have used it, as it went in blue in and came out in blue and the reg number was the same as befor the war. Wish i could find out its history during the war.

Keith

[billh35]

In Northern Ireland 63 buses were "requistioned" by military authorities at the start of the war and were shipped to England very quickly - none ever returned as far as I know.

 

The RASC established a Motor Coach Company at Gosford Castle, Markethill, Co. Armagh to be ready to move troops in the event of an impending invasion. When this threat disappeared 129 vehicles which had been requistioned on the mainland were sold to the Northern Ireland Road Transport Board who embarked on a refurbishment and re-registration programme with most receiving new bodywork and identities. These are well documented.

 

Is there any website or group where I can research the original 63 which disappeared to the mainland?