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ASC Trucks and cars

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Here are a few original photos that came in the post today. ASC training at Dunbridge Harts. on one of the photos it has on the truck ASC 9283 Bul [bulford ?]. One of the photos [ officer with driver ] of the car it says Studebaker. The photo of the truck going up hill it says " Straker Squire pulling up hill ".

Keith

ASC 9283 BUL r.jpg

officer with driver.jpg

officers with car.jpg

ww1 truck r.jpg

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Twin Halley's in the top photo? Do I remember seeing a photo of this motor in the Halley restoration thread? Am I right in thinking that Halley used more than one type of motor?

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Thanks for sharing. Nice clear images. Unfortunately the troops are the focus in a couple of them but as Red Herring has stated.... not difficult to miss the distinctive filler of the Halley radiator so one would have to go with his ID. The ASC over BUL is a common vehicle ID for transport issued from that source. Assuming said vehicle was embarked for France it would have had a number change as soon as it arrived "in country" to use a more modern term! Rod

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The photo of the two trucks had Halleys but i thought it was a name of the driver, so thanks for that ID.

Keith

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Hmm. Not much to go on to ID these two lorries. Is it possible the partially obscured wheel on the rear lorry is Milnes Daimler?? If it is, it is surely a rare photo. Benzene Lancers has a photo of an earlier model on p.11. and notes that variants of the M.D. had been used by the A.S.C. since 1901.

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This one came in the post today. Driver and Sgt/major with arm band. M14028 on the bonnet. The photo was in a bit of a mess, so gave it a clean up. You can see a hand siren and a horn.

Keith

ww1 car before.jpg

ww1 car M14028 with siren.jpg

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The staff car in the first post is a Studebaker; that in the latest a Vauxhall D-type. Nice pictures.

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Still wearing spurs . Though they are a very long swan neck, with what looks like a rowel. I'd say they for a driver rather than cavalary. Which make sense if they are Alley Slopper's Cavalary.

Edited by Tony B

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Regards the Milnes-Damiler photograph. I have a bias towards Thornycroft, so naturally my eye started looking for features in common. Besides having 4 wheels on the ground a bonnet etc, the finer features do show some points in common with Thornycroft J of the period 1912-13. There are not a lot of old photos of the time showing side on images, most photos are of the front quarter, The J's of this period do show variations to the design than what was latter to become the War Dept. type.

I note from this photo the rear wheels have 8 flat vertical spokes with a backing plate behind the spokes. Thornycroft used a backing plate, have 8 spokes of a similar pattern, with a strengthening section at the back giving a T section. This photo has the back of the spokes in shadow not allowing complete observation.Thornycroft using cast flat spokes went through a numbers of different shapes to the size and shape of the holes between the spokes. The heart shaped holes vary in size as do the smaller holes towards the rim.

The front wheels appear to be the same same as a Thornycroft, with the same spoke number and shape. The front springs appear to have hangers on to the front as there is a gap up to the towing hooks. Same as early Thornycroft. The radiator has different side sections more like those of a Leyland. The radiator mount is a round truncheon from the lower tank. the scuttle is flat with no curve where as the Thornycroft has a slight tapered section above, however this section in WD lorries from Thornycroft could be an additional section bolted or riveted on. The bonnet latches and springs are similar as are the spring and mounting points to the chassis holding up the engine mud shield.

The rear spring hangers to the front spring as the same while the rear spring have different mounts.

 

Could it be one of the early J series imported into Australia. If we only had a photo of the front of the vehicle, these queries would all be answered. Any way its an interesting way to spend an hour on a freezing winters morning.

Doug :-|

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Doug, I agree it could well be a Thornycroft. The radiator has features typical of Thornycroft of the period. Front wheels seem right. However, I have never seen a Thornycroft photo with hub caps quite like these. Photos I have seen appear flatter/shorter? Have also not seen rear wheels quite like these. On the photo I posted and the photo at the beginning of the thread the spokes appear straight and flat. No curves or backing? Noted we cannot see behind the backing plate.

Having absorbed your discussion on this you have sparked my curiosity re. another photo of a "Milnes Daimler" taken in StKilda Road. I think it may be miss-described!

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Robert

Below is a picture of a early Thornycroft wheel minus its backing plate and axle,which is a good match for the picture you posted on page 1.

 

577e253badec154ce836e8558f83b75c_zpscad35c4e.jpg

Edited by Chaindrive

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Pay that. The wheels appear to be identical. So what do you think about the wheel in the ASC photo? It's not the same, is it?

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Close up of the wheel.

Keith

 

The picture is perplexing. Does the wheel belong to the truck or are the chaps working on a wheel belonging to something else. It does look rather small in diameter and its angle in relation to the truck looks wrong. Also if the wheel was attached to the truck the fellow leaning over it would have to be under the rear body of the truck. My idea is that they are working on something beside the truck,not the truck itself....however i could be completely wrong.

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To use the quote from Chain Drive "however i could be completely wrong."

My comments regards the photograph being a Thornycroft are to outline the similarities I see, there are differences and points which do not match. It could be, it may not be.

 

While we think of standardization for production, there was variation and modification of design. This appears as be as both improvements and to special order from a client. The Thornycroft build register shows a reference to design changes through a numbering sequence in one column, however there is no supporting paperwork known to remain as plans, illustrating what the changes actually were.

This has lead me to assemble up photographs of the parts of such early trucks located, and build up a reference library to assist in identifying bits seen. This variation in design form is not just limited to Thornycroft but to so many of the trucks of the solid rubber tyre era.

Along with the photo collection is the accumulation of numbers from chassis and parts to further piece together the riddles.

I am interested in the photo of the rear axle showing the small holes in the rim face. Are there any numbers stamped about the lip of the bowl or on a brass plate near the oil filler?

Doug

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What we can say, almost certaintly, about Keith's picture is that it does not show a Milnes Daimler - the metal rear wheels on MDs were of a 10 spoke design rather than the 8 spoke design in the picture. From what can be seen of the hub, I'd subscribe to the idea that it's a Thornycroft (though somewhat annoying that the cut outs one normally expects aren't quite visible).

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To use the quote from Chain Drive "however i could be completely wrong."

My comments regards the photograph being a Thornycroft are to outline the similarities I see, there are differences and points which do not match. It could be, it may not be.

 

While we think of standardization for production, there was variation and modification of design. This appears as be as both improvements and to special order from a client. The Thornycroft build register shows a reference to design changes through a numbering sequence in one column, however there is no supporting paperwork known to remain as plans, illustrating what the changes actually were.

This has lead me to assemble up photographs of the parts of such early trucks located, and build up a reference library to assist in identifying bits seen. This variation in design form is not just limited to Thornycroft but to so many of the trucks of the solid rubber tyre era.

Along with the photo collection is the accumulation of numbers from chassis and parts to further piece together the riddles.

I am interested in the photo of the rear axle showing the small holes in the rim face. Are there any numbers stamped about the lip of the bowl or on a brass plate near the oil filler?

Doug

 

Doug

I have not been able to locate any stamped marks on the diff housing and no brass plate. There are part numbers cast into the differential housing as well as the oil filler plug and drain plug. They are the only markings I could find, and are difficult to see due to rust scale. Stamped numbers might be on the housing somewhere but obscured by rust. Do you need pictures of the cast part numbers?

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Out with Milnes Daimler... in with Thornycroft!

 

Here is another photo of a truck, again ascribed to the former make!

 

What do you make of it?

 

NSW truck.jpg

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I will say Fiat. On the shop window i can make out Fiat ......?? Karrier Yorkshire steam wagon cars. Looks similar to a picture I have of a Fiat 18L however the picture i have is not clear and does not have the rear fuel tank.

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Regards the Garratt's photo. The label on the window gives a clue; agents for Fiat, **** ( Not clear), Karrier and Yorkshire Steam Wagons.

It is not the latter, has different front spring mounts to a Karrier so aside from the unreadable it could well be a Fiat. Supporting that is the position of the fuel tank at the rear of the chassis, typical of Fiat. Also the front axle steeped back from the radiator puts it to the period 1912-14.

I'll call it a Fiat model 18.

Doug

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Fiat usually has the fuel tank either under the seat or under the rear of the chassis depending on the requirements of their customer. Just as a point of difference I don't think that they ever had fuel tanks mounted on the bulkhead like a lot of British makes did. The 'unreadable' word on shop window might be 'SPA'

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The make next to FIAT on the shop window looks like K.R.I.T. No idea what they looked like but they were built in Michigan, USA from about 1911 to 1914. I am certain that the lorry pictured is not a K.R.I.T. though as K.R.I.T. appear to have made mainly cars and a van based on their car chassis.

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