show report Reporting Live from W&P Revival 2013

[paul_bish]

I see this an exchange

 

- we collectors or living history folks spend a fortune to display and get good weeks pretty much free camping and passes

-The public pay to come to see our stuff and that covers the cost of the show, toilets, security etc. The stuff that everyone complains about when they are broken...

 

Nothing is for free. The more people who fake up a Mondeo to get in means worse facilities for everyone

[Grasshopper]

Need to be careful here- a good friend has an ex USAF Opel estate and was accused by show marshals of painting it green just to get in the show for free, when in fact it does have a documented ex-military history. Another friend once had a genuine ex USAF LDV van and had the same accusations levelled at him.

[alixcompo]

Need to be careful here- a good friend has an ex USAF Opel estate and was accused by show marshals of painting it green just to get in the show for free, when in fact it does have a documented ex-military history. Another friend once had a genuine ex USAF LDV van and had the same accusations levelled at him.

 

Slightly off topic here but I have an ex USAF LDV truck which has been over painted. I am keen to find out what marking it would have had. Could you put him in touch with me please.?

[Enigma]

About Civvy vehicles versus expensive MV's.

Don't Judge to easy...

 

I have taken a Civvy car in MV guise to the show for years.

And we do have a $$$$$$$$ MV!

 

So why?

 

Well, we allready have to travel in 3 foreign countrys and pay for the Ferry to England.

The Dodge is even slower than the Renault.

Also the Dodge is WAAAAAAY more expensive in fuel.

The Dodge is less safe.

 

We have taken a Dodge to the show a few times in the past.

 

And what cheapness?

I pay 54 euro roadtaxes EACH MONTH for my little 2 seater Renault.

 

And above all, on the show we'd hardly use the Dodge to justify all those expenses to take it there.

 

Plus like so many people I haven't got a lot of money to begin with as those who know me can attest.

Health would also make a longer journey less ideal. (I wasn't in the Red Cross tent just for fun guys).

 

Plus; MV or not, I still pay the 25 GBP to get into the show, MV or not. Just like every other guy.

 

So don't just bash on a person like me without knowing the circumstances.

 

Yes, I take this a bit personally.

I've spend enough hard cash in a country that isn't my own, so how about that?

 

But still, I am a free loader, fraud or a killjoy?

 

Thanks.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Enigma

[Marmite!!]

 

Plus; MV or not, I still pay the 25 GBP to get into the show, MV or not. Just like every other guy.

 

 

With respect Olaf, there are many without MV's that attend the show, They pay For Public Camping, If everyone did the same as you do then there would not be many MV's at the show..

 

Transport, Fuel & tolls to get kit to the show this year Was well over £500

 

As said before it costs people many ££££ to attend the show, I know people in the UK that have MV's that would like to attend but can't afford it but they don't go marking there Civy vehicles up..

 

The organisers are to blame for not stamping this out from the start, the answer is unless you can prove that your vehicle is a genuine UN, Military Police etc vehicle they should not be allowed on the exhibitor field & should be charged to go in the public camping area..

[gas 44]

With respect Olaf, there are many without MV's that attend the show, They pay For Public Camping, If everyone did the same as you do then there would not be many MV's at the show..

 

Transport, Fuel & tolls to get kit to the show this year Was well over £500

 

As said before it costs people many ££££ to attend the show, I know people in the UK that have MV's that would like to attend but can't afford it but they don't go marking there Civy vehicles up..

 

The organisers are to blame for not stamping this out from the start, the answer is unless you can prove that your vehicle is a genuine UN, Military Police etc vehicle they should not be allowed on the exhibitor field & should be charged to go in the public camping area..

 

Let me please state that I DO NOT have a problem with ANY REAL EX MIL vehicle whether it be a tank or push bike or a REAL EX UN vehicle. I do however have a problem with vehicles that are not the real deal.

To quote from the W&P plaque...." THE GREATEST GATHERING OF MILITARY VEHICLES ON THE PLANET" ok that does not include current serving vehicles BUT it does exclude civvy vehicles with stickers put there to get cheap entry to the show.

 

Here here........for once I agree with you Lee.

 

Olaf, with regard to spending money in a country thats not yours.........

Plenty of us Brits do that every year,its called going on holiday and I normally spend money at W&P with Dutch traders that I am sure does not go into british banks.......so there

Edited July 26, 2013 by gas 44

[Tony B]

I can see Olaf's point. In most 'Modern' scenarios you will see local hired or civillian vehicles with everything from Stick on signs to a pice of cardboard in the window as markings. If the vehicles are mixed with some obvious military vehicles, they would be in context.

[Marmite!!]

I can see Olaf's point. In most 'Modern' scenarios you will see local hired or civillian vehicles with everything from Stick on signs to a pice of cardboard in the window as markings. If the vehicles are mixed with some obvious military vehicles, they would be in context.

 

Totally disagree Tony, Olaf point was costs.. Why should we spend many hundred coming to a show & others can turn up in their civvy vehicle & display amongst the MV's..

 

Also many have to pay £30 for a support pass to park in the support carpark, If those marking up their civvy vehicle are using their vans for that purpose then they should be paying for a support pass like others..

[gas 44]

Totally disagree Tony, Olaf point was costs.. Why should we spend many hundred coming to a show & others can turn up in their civvy vehicle & display amongst the MV's..

 

Also many have to pay £30 for a support pass to park in the support carpark, If those marking up their civvy vehicle are using their vans for that purpose then they should be paying for a support pass like others..

 

I agree with the point about costs.

I would add that I think the extra cost for the support car park is shall we say....a little cheeky.

[griff66]

wow ex usaf opel estate and ex usaf ldv van worth the war and p entry price alone to see those two beauties !

[Enigma]

The public indeed pays a lot but I haven't seen many where we camped.

So even the most expensive MV's weren't looked at which is offcourse a shame.

 

BUT, what is a real Civvy car used as military vehicle.

A CJ2 is civvie but used as MV in Dutch service.

So a green CJ2 may also be used on the show if its proven to be a EX-mv? But no military evidence means no admittance?

How about many a civvie Landrover painted green?

MV or not? Probably not.

 

Hell, even officials drive modern non MV's. Should they be banned?

How about repro stuff, fiberglass Spitfire, banned?

German armored car on a Civvie Landrover chassis, banned?

Those wonderful classic cars like the Rolls Royces, banned?

 

So first to discuss we need to establish what is a PROPER MV.

 

Also, a show of hands for people who drive a civvie car marked Military without PROOF it was actually used as a real MV...

 

I'd like a modern ex MV so I can use it daily and as proper MV.

But the road taxes (mainly diesel) would be to much.

 

What is the minimum amount of money spend to be acceptable to attend?

So I should be banned because I don't bring a MV or be banned to the Public Camping away from my friends who do bring a MV?

 

About paying for support carpark so you can bring a MV (probably for the same arguments as I had).

 

For me to trailer a MV means;

1, buy a proper towing vehicle

2, buying a trailer

4, pay more for the ferry

5, probaly need another drivers license

6, pay even more road taxes

7, pay for the trailer to be stored

So what do you guys say I must do te be accepted?

 

And why accept green painted caravans, campers then. Aren't these wrong?

Still as said, to drive a fake MV or real MV costs the same registration fees.

 

I see many peoples point but I feel like a few of us are singled out as whipping boys, even though I understand what you mean.

[Adam Elsdon]

wow ex usaf opel estate and ex usaf ldv van worth the war and p entry price alone to see those two beauties !

 

I dont see the problem with that type of vehicle, if the displayed vehicle was actually used by the military. BRIXMIS used Opel Senators and a variety of low key vehicles while "spying" on East German activities, and I drove an LDV minibus at Brize Norton on "Guard Commander" duties, fun at 2 AM seeing how fast I could change guard shifts!! holds more interest to me than line after line of jeeps.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Adam Elsdon
Because I can!

[Tugger]

wow ex usaf opel estate and ex usaf ldv van worth the war and p entry price alone to see those two beauties !

 

Aaargghh! This is exactly the point!

 

It doesn't matter whether they're your cup of tea or not, the fact is they're genuine MV's, I could say OooooOOoooh another Jeep, they're hardly rocking horse poo.

 

 

I agree that civvie vehicles should be tightned up on but it's not as simple as a blanket ban, for example the VW bus of previous years with the Rolling Thunder display is obviously civvie, but worked brilliantly with the display. I agree with Lee about the ownership of a vehicle doesn't dispensate someone bringing anything into the 'Green Zone'. that's surely exactly what the support area is for.

[polecat paul]

Aaargghh! This is exactly the point!

 

It doesn't matter whether they're your cup of tea or not, the fact is they're genuine MV's, I could say OooooOOoooh another Jeep, they're hardly rocking horse poo.

 

 

I agree that civvie vehicles should be tightned up on but it's not as simple as a blanket ban, for example the VW bus of previous years with the Rolling Thunder display is obviously civvie, but worked brilliantly with the display. I agree with Lee about the ownership of a vehicle doesn't dispensate someone bringing anything into the 'Green Zone'. that's surely exactly what the support area is for.

 

I totally agree, i have stopped going to many shows as all you see are the same line up of Jeeps, much rather see An ex military LDV or something a bit different, the thing is what qualifies an ex military vehicle? i have just sold an ex RAF series 2 but it was mostly restored using civvy body panels!.........

[Adrian Barrell]

I think this all depends on what you go to the shows for. The average member of the public cannot tell a Tiger from a Transit and probably does not care whether the vehicle they look at is 'genuine' or not. For them variety, however real or otherwise makes the show more interesting.

 

Living history does nothing for me but I know the public like it a lot, especially a good battle!

 

I go to shows to see the vehicles, meet friends, buy stuff etc. I don't feel aggrieved if there is a fake vehicle, any UN marked vehicle (for example) is of little interest to me, but that's just me.

 

It's a hobby , I am not on some crusade to make sure the public are educated and they certainly do not owe me a favour for showing my vehicle to them.

[N.O.S.]

I think this all depends on what you go to the shows for. ......

 

Hallelujah!

 

And the other point is - if what you go for coincides broadly with what the show is about then great - if not you're bound to find something to be disappointed with.

 

In the case of W&P, I suspect that the show depends greatly on getting enough paying foot traffic. To that end you have the funfair and non-MV stalls which are essential if the family members with not much interest in Mvs are to be entertained.

 

If a W&P were laid on to cater purely for the more serious MV interests it may prove to be a loss maker.

[Grasshopper]

wow ex usaf opel estate and ex usaf ldv van worth the war and p entry price alone to see those two beauties !

 

People find beauty in the strangest of things!

[gas 44]

I dont see the problem with that type of vehicle, if the displayed vehicle was actually used by the military. BRIXMIS used Opel Senators and a variety of low key vehicles while "spying" on East German activities, and I drove an LDV minibus at Brize Norton on "Guard Commander" duties, fun at 2 AM seeing how fast I could change guard shifts!! holds more interest to me than line after line of jeeps.

 

Just the point i was making. There is no issue with real ex mil vehicle of any type in my book.

What I said was I was supprised at the amount of civvy vehicles that attended. I was at the back of Kitcheners field and by friday night I was surrounded by for example....Ford Focus, VW Golf I could go on. If these vehicles are used to transport true ex-mil vehicles or even kit to a degree OK. BUT when they are used just as method to get cheap camping and entry I for one dont think its right and not fair on others who have made the effort.

I would be interested in what they filled in on the entry form.

[paul_bish]

Just the point i was making. There is no issue with real ex mil vehicle of any type in my book.

What I said was I was surprised at the amount of civvy vehicles that attended. I was at the back of Kitcheners field and by friday night I was surrounded by for example....Ford Focus, VW Golf I could go on. If these vehicles are used to transport true ex-mil vehicles or even kit to a degree OK. BUT when they are used just as method to get cheap camping and entry I for one don't think its right and not fair on others who have made the effort.

I would be interested in what they filled in on the entry form.

 

I agree if the vehicle is either;

a civvy vehicle that is ex-military and marked as such

a civvy vehicle used in a living history scenario - hi-lux technical

a replica of a military vehicle but using civvy base- the VW Beetle shown is a good example

Replica military vehicle - the SPR Tiger

 

I think thats fine.

 

Otherwise its just trying to get round the system to get some cheap tickets, as said what was put on the entry form. 1989 Renault UN Vehicle?

[Enigma]

So its basically about money and not the vehicle itself.

Clear.

 

Still, for the 3rd time; I pay the same as for the other participants.

[Adrian Barrell]

I for one dont think its right and not fair on others who have made the effort.

 

 

How is it not fair on others?

[Enigma]

How is it not fair on others?

 

Indeed Adrian, I also wonder.

Is it not fair off me to have limited funds and still wanting to join my friends at the show on a budget?

[Maurice]

Just the point i was making. There is no issue with real ex mil vehicle of any type in my book.

What I said was I was supprised at the amount of civvy vehicles that attended. I was at the back of Kitcheners field and by friday night I was surrounded by for example....Ford Focus, VW Golf I could go on. If these vehicles are used to transport true ex-mil vehicles or even kit to a degree OK. BUT when they are used just as method to get cheap camping and entry I for one dont think its right and not fair on others who have made the effort.

I would be interested in what they filled in on the entry form.

 

 

The only way to get around the everyday car thing then would be to say a show is for vehicles built from say 1914 till 1980. OK there will be again people who find a way around it , but limits their sources.

[Marmite!!]

So its basically about money and not the vehicle itself.

Clear.

 

Still, for the 3rd time; I pay the same as for the other participants.

 

Could you recommend a Military Show in your country that I could bring my Ford KA to & park amongst the MV's?? I haven't washed it yet after W&P so it's in Gulf War guise

[fv1609]

The only way to get around the everyday car thing then would be to say a show is for vehicles built from say 1914 till 1980. OK there will be again people who find a way around it , but limits their sources.

 

Oh so then I wouldn't be able to bring my 1998 Wolf.

 

It was blown up in Afghanistan & seen more action than many vehicles on display.