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2nd Pattern DPM Arctic Smock

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An interesting example of an Arctic Smock 2nd Pattern or c.1984/85. Has a metric label but no FFD pocket on left sleeve - so this may be an early example from the changeover from early sizing to metric. Although not great photos the material looks like the earlier lighter DPM material also.

 

Front and rear rank tabs and in a decent 190/112 size, manufactured by James Smith Co in Derby.

 

84PatternArcticSmockLabel190112.jpg

84PattArcticSmock190112.jpg

84PattArcticSmockRear190112.jpg

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How much do you think something like this would fetch in the same condition. I was given the same kind but its to small for me. It comes with a Chinese vest inside.

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Tough to say - metric size gear, even the gabardine smocks, don't fetch much - so c.£15 - £25. If it is in the older 1-9 sizing then can be £75+.

 

What size is it?

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Looking at yours mine is slightly different, so i got it wrong :red:

But its a cold weather jacket with a full length chinese fighting jacket inside.

 

DSC02378.jpg

sorry to the state of my carpet :red::red::red:

DSC02379.jpg

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Nice example. I have an arctic smock 180/104 (metric sizing.) and that is in the earlier lighter ,might I say softer feel material.This has the field dressing pocket as well as the other arm pocket, but it also has front and rear rank tabs.

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As a postscript to the above , these seem to go for very low prices now on e bay , where as a couple of years ago they could fetch up to £50 pounds or so , even well used.

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Its way to small for me and i would sell it . But the epaulettes have been cut of to make it look like a sas style smock "not by me though"

And i have an arktis smock that's made from gabardine and its really soft, just wish i could wear it all day its so comfy :D

And the price of dpm has dropped due to the demand for mtp. But i have a full set of that as well :D

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That's what i don't get, how old is old? I see all the smocks on here have Velcro and that hasn't been around that long, has it? And the second one you posted i used to have one but the rear sight on the gimpy ripped the pocket clean of so i binned the bugger :undecided:

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You are looking at mid/late 70s at the earliest for these bit of kit. Sizing went metric in early 80s.

 

So, in short, no - not that old....

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The "SAS" type windproof smock (non-wired hood and no rank tabs) appeared around 1975, along with the trousers with the crossover-belt waist-fastening modeled on the old green drill jungle trousers......

 

The Arctic smock and trousers appeared slightly later, around 1976.......

 

All the above at this point had the pre-metric sizing.....

 

Around 1980-81 the sizing went over to metric.......

 

The FFD pocket was not added to garments until around '84..........

 

Around this time the arctic smock lost the rear rank tab.......

 

Manufacturers names began to disappear from garments when the MoD started tendering contracts outside the UK....probably to avoid any sensitivities........I think this occurred from the mid-90s onwards.......

 

All this should assist dating garments......:-D

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Here is an older version of the 'Falklands' parka in pre-metric sizing....

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]70678[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70680[/ATTACH]

 

A rarer version of the DPM parka that first appeared around 75-76.......note the partial lining in green nylon rather than DPM fabric, the "rectangular" shape pocket flaps (the left breast pocket incorporating a pen-pocket just like the earlier green middle parka) and the double "Fixlok" hood adjustment cord stops..........

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A rarer version of the DPM parka that first appeared around 75-76.......note the partial lining in green nylon rather than DPM fabric, the "rectangular" shape pocket flaps (the left breast pocket incorporating a pen-pocket just like the earlier green middle parka) and the double "Fixlok" hood adjustment cord stops..........

 

Sounds like the type I have.

 

Any ideas exactly when the sizing on all garments changed to metric as I was of the understanding that the easy way to date Falklands era gear is by the pre metric sizing as it didnt change over until 1984 but if it was in fact earlier that complicates things:mad:

 

If anyone has anything DPM to sell whack it on Ebay as Brokenarrow seems to be at least bidding if not buying every single item and especially DPM Para Smocks and 59 Patt Denisons;););)

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Sounds like the type I have.

 

Any ideas exactly when the sizing on all garments changed to metric as I was of the understanding that the easy way to date Falklands era gear is by the pre metric sizing as it didnt change over until 1984 but if it was in fact earlier that complicates things:mad:

 

If anyone has anything DPM to sell whack it on Ebay as Brokenarrow seems to be at least bidding if not buying every single item and especially DPM Para Smocks and 59 Patt Denisons;););)

 

Metric sizing actually appeared during the 70s, but it seems on "selected" garments such a No.2 dress uniforms, etc......I "acquired" a DPM para smock during 1982 that was used and in metric sizing, and in '83 acquired two more, both in metric..........(all no FFD pocket and made in the older sateen fabric and colours)........the same year, I was issued a DPM parka in metric, also lightweight trousers in metric, DPM tropicals, and green nylon RAF-pattern waterproofs the same........but some kit was still in the older size numbers, such as arctic windproofs, all "68" pattern combats, woolly pullys, etc......though some of this was clearly older stock.......

 

Metric sizing pre-dates the Falklands campaign, so I am estimating around '80 for many combat garments, possibly slightly earlier.........it MUST be remembered that Ordnance depots carried huge stocks of kit, all within individual groupings according to type and size, and some stock was older in origin (eg - very small or large sizes) that were in lesser demand so sat there for far longer, in some instances for several years..........QM's went on the NSN reference when demanding, not the actual size, the demand form requiring the NSN to be entered as opposed to any size.............it was the NSN that identified a particular item or size, not what was applied to the label....!!! :D

 

PS - I apply all my ramblings to personal experience, surviving garments and official MoD references....but, as with everything, gaps exist so some guesswork based on reasonable assessment is applied......!

 

And as a footnote, DPM is rapidly disappearing from the UK armed forces, no more being made.......certain items will, in time, become scarce and I have no doubt that we will see a glut of surplus DPM gear of all patterns and types released into the surplus market over the next few years........current interest appears focused toward MTP, so current DPM prices may have temporarily fallen, although I doubt if this will last in the longer term..........maybe a case of speculate-to-accumulate.....???

Edited by wdbikemad

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That's what i don't get, how old is old? I see all the smocks on here have Velcro and that hasn't been around that long, has it? And the second one you posted i used to have one but the rear sight on the gimpy ripped the pocket clean of so i binned the bugger :undecided:

 

It seems that Velcro was designed in the late-40s, patented in the mid-50s and refined for commercial production later that decade........

 

First UK usage appears to have been during the 1960s on aircrew clothing, particularly flying and cold-weather garments, and was commonplace by the end of the decade....

 

By the mid-70s it was also in use on the new DPM arctic clothing, parka liner, waterproofs, etc........so it seems to have been around a while !

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Whilst discussing price of dpm I have been watching a very good 1960 pattern dpm smock in a size 5 on ebay.(only £95.00)!!, I must admit I am tempted,but too afraid of the Mrs finding out and the subsequent fallout,lol. Ironically I used to have two of these which I aquired for about £20 or £30 if I recall and the sold them a couple of years later on e bay for not very much more.Something I regret very much as I have a real soft spot for these early dpm smocks. Still we live and learn as they say.

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I must admit a soft spot for the 60 pattern in DPM too........ironically, it wasn't too long ago you could still find 'em mixed in with later quantities of DPM clothing but I would guess those days are over......

 

All the research I have done indicates that DPM started issue to the regular army during early 1970, and whilst some first-line units did do a wholescale changeover from green to DPM, other Arms seem to have received the new clothing only on a maintenance basis to replace worn-out gear......issues to the TA of DPM did not commence (officially) until 1974....

 

The 68 pattern commenced issue during early 71 (by March) and many troops didn't ever see the DPM 60 pattern unless stock remained to be issued in the QM's or from ordnance depots, a situation that persisted up to the mid-70s at least....and there was much mis-matching of patterns, QM's not giving a damn about 60 or 68 models, only the fact that it was DPM.......

 

Evidence suggests that the 60 pattern DPM smock and trousers only stayed in production for a little over a year, under only two manufacturers (James Smith & Cookson & Clegg) and with three contracts in total......though all must of been for a fair quantity given the number of surviving garments today.....

 

It is thought that the changeover to DPM was approved prior to the 68 pattern receiving similar approval, therefore initial DPM production was of the existing 60 pattern prior to the garments specifications changing to the new patterns.....

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Whilst discussing price of dpm I have been watching a very good 1960 pattern dpm smock in a size 5 on ebay.(only £95.00)!!, I must admit I am tempted,but too afraid of the Mrs finding out and the subsequent fallout,lol. Ironically I used to have two of these which I aquired for about £20 or £30 if I recall and the sold them a couple of years later on e bay for not very much more.Something I regret very much as I have a real soft spot for these early dpm smocks. Still we live and learn as they say.

 

Been relisted quite a few times at varying prices.

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Whilst discussing price of dpm I have been watching a very good 1960 pattern dpm smock in a size 5 on ebay.(only £95.00)!!, I must admit I am tempted,but too afraid of the Mrs finding out and the subsequent fallout,lol. Ironically I used to have two of these which I aquired for about £20 or £30 if I recall and the sold them a couple of years later on e bay for not very much more.Something I regret very much as I have a real soft spot for these early dpm smocks. Still we live and learn as they say.

 

Go for it! MTP may be flavour of the month but it is still in production...60 Patt DPM is not and will only appreciate in value. 5 years ago I could pick up 59 Patt Denison smocks for £25 - these days they are fetching £150+ :wow:

 

Even modern DPM will eventually become valuable....:D

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Who spotted the size 6 DPM P60 smock that went for a cool £107 a few days ago?

 

Whilst it's a less desirable size, it makes the size 7 one I got earlier this year for £35 off eBay (badly listed) look like a relative bargain.

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I think I have around 4 DPM 60 pattern smocks (Sizes 1, 3, 5 and 8 ?) plus a similar number of trousers....all but one mint, and none cost me more than £30 each, all within the last 3 years........perhaps I was just lucky....

 

Although they are historical, from the perspective of being the first ISSUE DPM garments (circa 1970-71) and of limited production span (a little over a year), I'd personally far rather seek out the pre-60 pattern 1950's era combat clothing, arguably far rarer today than any DPM 60 pattern.....

 

Each to their own however.......:D

 

Top of my "rocking horse" list, is a "Combat Smock" in green gabardine from 1951 to early 52 manufacture.....I have the hood, trousers and parka, but to date, the smock eludes me......I have around 3 in sateen, but none in the original gabardine, far lighter in weight.......

Edited by wdbikemad

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Who spotted the size 6 DPM P60 smock that went for a cool £107 a few days ago?

 

Whilst it's a less desirable size, it makes the size 7 one I got earlier this year for £35 off eBay (badly listed) look like a relative bargain.

 

I was watching that size 6 as well, which was why I was suprised the size 5 still got no bids,as somebody allways seems to have plenty of disposable income and or a desperate need to own the aforementioned. I would dearly like to replace my foolishly sold 1960 pattern , but not at that price unfortunatly,( lottery win being the exception):-D

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I think I have around 4 DPM 60 pattern smocks (Sizes 1, 3, 5 and 8 ?) plus a similar number of trousers....all but one mint, and none cost me more than £30 each, all within the last 3 years........perhaps I was just lucky....

 

Although they are historical, from the perspective of being the first ISSUE DPM garments (circa 1970-71) and of limited production span (a little over a year), I'd personally far rather seek out the pre-60 pattern 1950's era combat clothing, arguably far rarer today than any DPM 60 pattern.....

 

Each to their own however.......:D

 

Top of my "rocking horse" list, is a "Combat Smock" in green gabardine from 1951 to early 52 manufacture.....I have the hood, trousers and parka, but to date, the smock eludes me......I have around 3 in sateen, but none in the original gabardine, far lighter in weight.......

 

I have two of the later pattern olive green 1960 pattern smocks size 5,one mint £16.00 at Beltring 6 years ago and one used but good £3.50 at a local boot fair.Yet on e bay these go for very high prices, but as I have learnt from past experience these will remain in my possesion. Personally I think collecting this sort thing should be for the pleasure and interest rather than any financial gain.And what can be valuable at one time can drop without warning in the future.I suppose it all boils down to where our own personal preferences and interests lay.

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