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MiketheBike

Ferret B60 woes

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Hi guys,

I have been tinkering with my new Ferret, and have so far been completely stumped trying to get any power from it.

The most I can get is 30mph, and its kinda hard to even hold that speed in top gear.

The engine revs freely, although a little rough at slow revs. In lower gears, it gets up to 3000+rpm easily, but struggles to accelerate/hold speed when pushed in 4th and 5th.

There do not appear to be any flat spots.

 

I have checked the carb over (with regards the easily accessable external jets etc) and it appears to be working OK.

I checked the points (gaps) and replaced the condenser while I was there. I checked all the plugs, they look fine.

 

I have replaced the fuel pump as the old one was leaking fuel into the oil.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheers

Mick

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Not a Ferret expert but have you tried checking cylinder compression and timing???

 

That was suggested when my Stalwart failed to hold higher speeds than 30 - but in my case turned out to be worn hydraulics on the accelerator control side.

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Mick. Is the fuel fresh or been hanging around for a while? Did it run ok once or has it been like that since you had it? The condenser that you replaced was it a brand new one or NOS, as they are often leak? The plugs your are using are they RSN13P they foul easily (unless you are using electronic ignition, if you use Rover plugs RSN12Y they foul up less easily. How are you cleaning the plugs? Nothing beats sand blasting, a wire brush can't clean inside. But even if the plugs are well used & clean there can be problems with the mica insulator abrading down as plugs are fitted & refitted. Are you absolutely certain the plug leads are on the right plugs? Is your distributor cap pitted / cracked if it has been reconditioned, they paint red oxide inside the metal bits sometimes it get splashed inside the cap itself. There may be a hairline crack in the rotor arm, have you changed that? Is air leaking in the fuel tank changeover switch or in the bleed valve on the fuel filter. Have you checked the fuel filter is it full of rust & bogies? Is your vacuum leaking from somewhere like the resevoir or to brake servo? Have you changed the engine oil now that it is diluted with fuel?

 

If you do a compression test they should ideally be 110 psi but the minimum field standard is 90 psi. If 2&3 or 4&5 are lower than the rest, then your head gasket is going I'm afraid. The ismus between 2&3 and 4&5 is quite narrow in addition the torquing of the cylinder head bolts is difficult as there is not enough room to get a socket on the torque wrench here. So RR say use a box spanner & I think a 6in tommy bar, the EMER I think says the same but with a 7in tommy bar. Now did the last fitter have a strong arm? But there is a risk that it may not have been done up well enough unless you use a 9/16 torque offset socket.

 

Green = 2&3 going :-(

 

Red = 4&5 gawn :cry:

 

width=640 height=262http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/fv1620/Dscf1878a.jpg[/img]

 

 

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Hi Clive,

wow...quite a lot to go on.

There was half a tank of fuel, I have filled it up now, and I am not sure how long the old stuff was in there. I have only had it a week, and it has run like this since I had it.

The condenser is a new lucas one.

I have a new set of plugs, I will fit those tomorrow. I will also check the dist cap/rotor arm...although they both look in good order.

I will check the leads/firing order...I had assumed that was correct...how stupid was that!

The original fuel filter has been removed, and a modern in line filter fitted...I will be fitting the original back in when I source some tubing :oops:

 

I hope it does not come down to your last paragraph! :cry:

 

Thanks for that...back to you later.

Mick

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Mick,

I know the guy you bought it from had trouble getting any power out of the engine. I told him to check for air leaks in the fuel system as it sounded a bit like air was leaking in under load at high revs. There is also a cork seal on top of the fuel filter (the metal cage part which holds the element) and I have had one of these fail in the past.

 

Chris

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Mick

 

I don't have a Ferret, I am into Humbers but I believe you have reserve tank. But I had old fuel being drawn in because the fuel guage read the fuel level in the tank you weren't using! Anyway it ran very badly then died as an exhaust valve tappet shattered. I didn't realise I was drawing in the grotty stuff & kept topping up the OK tank which was not switched in.

 

Check your fuel tank breather is clear, many were fitted with a non-return valve in case of vehicle overturning. The valve is a haven to widlife & grot. Is also found an embolism of platercine in the breather left over from some wading nonsense.

 

As for copper pipe I tend to use pipe from B&Q for central heating jobs. Its metric though not as flexible as the proper stuff & as metric you have to file the connectors slightly. Its just easy to get hold of.

 

As Neil suggested do a compression test anyway. If they are nice & high that's great you have a benchmark for future checks. But low 2&3 or 4&5 are a red flag.

 

BTW all those things mentioned are not said through any cleverness on my part, they are all things that have gone wrong for me, damn nuisance at the time but good to have learnt once the crisis was over!

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Hi

had a problem like this with a B60. It turned out to be the leads being leaky, as being somewhat old :shake:

We replaced the old ones with new silicon rubber covered copper cored HT lead, made up into the old covers.

Other problem we had was timeing and timeing weights being seized.

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Hi Andrew,

 

Thanks for the reply.

how do you get to the timing weights? I tried to remove the base that carries the points but it seems very tight fit and did not want to force it. I had assumed I just undo the two screws and lift the black base out?

 

Thanks,

 

Mick

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Hi Andrew,

 

Thanks for the reply.

how do you get to the timing weights? I tried to remove the base that carries the points but it seems very tight fit and did not want to force it. I had assumed I just undo the two screws and lift the black base out?

 

Thanks,

 

Mick

 

 

Mick,

 

while you have the baseplate out why not fit one of Jolly's B60 electronic ignition conversions.. http://www.hmvf.co.uk/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=49&topic=1288.15

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Hi Mick ,I'd Check first the compression, the cylinders should all be around the same pressure ,my GMC was all within 10 psi of each other. I had a problem whilst driving the GMC ,it would drive O.K whilst slow then as you gathered speed it would slow right up turned out to be a small matchstick type piece of wood in the fuel line???.

 

As posted before the Electronic ignition is well worth the money,I couldn't believe the difference it made to my GMC, starting on the button and running much smother.

 

Hope you get it sorted

 

Regards

Steve

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how do you get to the timing weights? I tried to remove the base that carries the points but it seems very tight fit and did not want to force it. I had assumed I just undo the two screws and lift the black base out?

 

Yes it should then just lift out. I have replaced baseplates on several distributors with no problems. But I came to fit another Jolley kit & both the distributors I had chosen to be possible recipients, the base plate would not come out. I tried WD40 around the edge & modest heat around the metal body, but still wouldn't budge. So I chose the one with the most worn plates & gently smashed it out.

 

I gave it all a good wash out with solvent to get rid off the powder bits of baseplate. Was a good opportunity to clean & re-grease the spindle weights. Don't worry that one spring may be loose. Deliberately there is a 7-turn spring & the other is 6-turn one.

 

You will need to re-use the two base plate bolts, it is rather silly Jolley provides new ones but they are at least 3mm too long!

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Thanks guys. Yes, I contacted Jollet last week and they quote £153 +vat, which is a bargain really. My brother installed some in his landy a few years ago and has never touched them since.

 

I will try to work up the courage to check out the compression and fuel lines later :-o

 

 

 

[attachment deleted by admin]

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they quote £153 +vat,

 

The price has gone up its now £157.64 + £6 p&p + VAT on both = £192.28

 

Still worth it though.

 

If you do fit it, remove the BALLAST lead from the ignition switch. Otherwise the full 24v is applied to the coil on start up. This is no longer needed with the improved spark & if this is boosted further by being given 24volts may establish tracking in the distributor cap.

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Oh dear.....

Just checked the compression, and all 6 are 50psi :-(

I guess having fuel as an engine lubricant has really screwed things up (apparently the fuel pump has been leaking for a year...when I drained the oil out it was like pure petrol).

 

Also, the fuel filter is a small in-line one, and it almost empties when I just sit in the drive and get the revs up to 3000, so I'm guessing under load it will empty and starve the carb?

 

I checked the breather, and the pin inside the safety device was stuck in, so I wd40'ed it and its freed up now.

 

oh dear oh dear oh dear....how do I break it to the missus that I nagged her for 4 years to get one, now I have a duffer!

 

Mick

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That sucks...

Had a problem with my first Jeep. A tear between 2 cilinders and watercooling-channel, bought another engine.

 

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The fact that the compression is so consistent between cylinders...like its exactly 50psi on each pot.....does that suggest the engine is worn, or that my compression tester is duff?

 

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Just checked the compression, and all 6 are 50psi :-(

I guess having fuel as an engine lubricant has really screwed things up (apparently the fuel pump has been leaking for a year...when I drained the oil out it was like pure petrol).

 

It seems rather sad that the previous failed to investigate the problem. So have you run it a little while with its proper oil & measured the pressure when hot?

 

As regards fuel, I have an intermittent constriction/obstruction in one fuel tank. Often shows itself when trying to overtake, this shortage of fuel seems to show itself with backfiring. Do you get that? But your filter may empty itself but there is bit of reserve in the carb of course.

 

If the bore has worn as the result of inadequate lubrication then there are sets of piston rings to compensate for this in 10, 20 & 40 thou, so no need to mention it to your wife yet. So may not be the end of the world ;-)

 

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Simple way to find out

 

Buy another compression tester

 

Damn sight cheaper than a replacement engine

 

Seriously though it might be no more than valves not seating correctly and your losing compression that way.

 

Do you get any evidence of over run or pinking? if so you might just need a decoke

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Got some brand new B60 cylinder heads if any one wants one.. no valves.. brand new sealed & crated from the factory.. if you want one free of charge, need to make room, you can pick up from the Bunker show in May.. send me a PM.. :-D

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oh dear oh dear oh dear....how do I break it to the missus that I nagged her for 4 years to get one, now I have a duffer!

 

Mick,

Good luck with sorting your engine troubles. It looks like you need to get the head off and have a look down the bores. I'd also get rid of that small inline filter and replace it with a new correct one.

 

I think that Ferret was cheap for a reason? Just remember everything you do to it will only increase its value! Even if you have to buy a reconditioned engine it will still be a cheap ferret! :-)

 

Chris

 

 

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Got some brand new B60 cylinder heads if any one wants one.. no valves.. brand new sealed & crated from the factory.. if you want one free of charge, need to make room, you can pick up from the Bunker show in May.. send me a PM.. :-D

 

 

Ok that's two new heads on the way to Beltring .. anyone else :dunno:

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Mick,

 

Before you pull the engine apart, squirt a bit of engine oil down each bore and carry out the compression test again. If the pressure rises more than 50, then, yes it is worn bores, but if it makes little difference, it looks like it may be valves leaking. The exhaust valve clearances are rarely checked due to them being difficult to access with the exhaust manifold in the way.

 

Richard

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Ok that's two new heads on the way to Beltring .. anyone else :dunno:

 

 

And freight rates via Stalwart are VERY reasonable!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Thanks guys...I bought another compression tester today...yes that may be cheaper/simpler than removing the head. The last time I used my compression tester was on my Hillman Avenger in 1981, so it may well be duff :|

 

 

 

I will try the oil trick....when I looked at the plugs they were pretty black, so I may get it nice and hot and run it up the road before retrying the compression test.

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Guys,

should I be using straight SAE30 instead of multigrade...I have seen stuff on other sites saying multigrade can wear the engine out real quick?

 

Cheers

Mick

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