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andym

FAC Application

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Could anyone who is holding a live artillery piece on an FAC (other than Section 5) and who can spare a few minutes drop me a PM? I need to respond to some questions I've been asked about my application ....

 

Thanks in advance

Andy

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How are you getting on Andy?

 

I'm quietly hopeful but don't want to jinx anything!

 

Andy

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Thanks to all who helped with this - I received a telephone call this morning from the local firearms officer, who tells me they have agreed to grant my FAC.

 

However, I've got another question. They have questioned my intention to load my own blanks as they believe the quantity of propellant involved would require an explosives manufacturing licence, which wouldn't normally be granted for private premises even for black powder. Does anyone who loads their own blanks or charges have any advice?

 

Andy

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Firstly congratulations.

 

Secondly regarding the black powder question. I wanted to do the are but thought "small steps", let me prove myself before asking to load my own blanks so I didn't ask. After all you could "theoretically" create live ammunition.

 

However I was surprised when I receive my Section 1 FAC in the post when it read

"The .37mm single shot armoured vehicles shall be used only with BLANK CHARGES OR BLANK AMMUNITION in connection with displays, battle re-enactment and demonstrations under the supervision of appointed officers of the Military Vehicle Trust."

 

You might want to try that caveat first Andy as like I said, small steps.

 

Best regards,

 

Martin

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Firstly what experience have you in the use of Black powder & Loading? they will ask this question

 

 

However I was surprised when I receive my Section 1 FAC in the post when it read "The .37mm single shot armoured vehicles shall be used only with BLANK CHARGES OR BLANK AMMUNITION in connection with displays, battle re-enactment and demonstrations under the supervision of appointed officers of the Military Vehicle Trust."

That's standard on a Live Artillery FAC, it gives you no rights to acquire Black Powder, that is covered under an Explosives License not an FAC.

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Firstly what experience have you in the use of Black powder & Loading? they will ask this question

 

 

 

That's standard on a Live Artillery FAC, it gives you no rights to acquire Black Powder, that is covered under an Explosives License not an FAC.

 

Absolutely. It's the question of whether they will grant an Explosives Licence for manufacturing blanks rather than just storing them. That's why I'm interested in knowing what others have done.

 

Andy

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I understand that Marmite, but I didn't say having an FAC gave Andy or I any rights to acquire/keep Black Powder, and understand that you would need an Explosives License (and not an FAC).

 

I spent 11 years in the army, my trade being EOD and have probably more experience with explosives than most Explosive Licensing Officers but am not going to swing any lampshades or pull-up any sandbags as what I was inferring to was building trust and showing that I am responsible...

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I understand that Marmite, but I didn't say having an FAC gave Andy or I any rights to acquire/keep Black Powder, and understand that you would need an Explosives License (and not an FAC).

 

 

Ok it was the bit when you said you were Surprised that confused me..

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The black powder licence used to be issued free of charge by the local authority. There used to be no problem just keep it in a wooden box. There is now legislation on the construction of the storage box. There are also two types, aquire (ie buy) and Keep, that is store as well. I had one for a muzzle loader. Same thing, I had the gun on a shotgun certificate, black powder on the second.

 

http://www.black-powder.co.uk/documentation.htm

Edited by Tony B

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Perhaps it might help if I explain my thought process?

 

Having cleared the first hurdle of the FAC itself and leaving aside the issue of sourcing the parts to build a live gun, I need to work out the best solution for the charges. The most obvious is the use of pukka L46A1 blanks, but they will undoubtedly be very expensive and probably complete overkill. I don't want to shatter windows or burst eardrums just for effects at a show. The next approach, which is what I suggested as part of the FAC application, is to reload used cases with black powder. Another solution would be to find a suitable electrically triggered pyrotechnic and build it into a modified case.

 

So at the moment I'm investigating to see what other people do in similar circumstances, hence my question here. Other sources of information are Edinburgh Castle (the 1 o'clock gun is a 105mm Light Gun) and re-enactors such as the group who fire the 4 inch guns on HMS Belfast. And of course, closest to me are the group who fire artillery at Fort Nelson.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Andy

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You will only be permitted to store a small quantity (for personal use).

Unfortunately Andy these issues lie with your local Firearms Licencing, as you will be aware by now although the Firearms and Explosives Law is printed in "Black and White" how your local Authority interprets it is another thing !

 

Good luck......................

 

Rob......................rnixartillery.

Edited by rnixartillery

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Yes, it makes sense. A few years back at Tilbury Fort you could 'Shoot the 5.5 inch gun' for a quid or so. What they did was have a case with a drilled out base and loaded a 12 bore alarm blank. Worked extremly well, satisfying bang with litle technical problem.

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There are other alternatives you could consider, Gas fired being one and you can hide all the componants inside the turret.

Conversion would be the expensive bit but from then on it would be cheaper than fireing powder charges.

Electric Pyro is another option.

 

Rob................rnixartillery

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Yes, it makes sense. A few years back at Tilbury Fort you could 'Shoot the 5.5 inch gun' for a quid or so. What they did was have a case with a drilled out base and loaded a 12 bore alarm blank. Worked extremly well, satisfying bang with litle technical problem.

 

According to an email received earlier today, that's apparently what HMS Belfast do. They use yacht starting gun cartridges. I've also heard back from Fort Nelson, who load their own and are happy to let me come and have a chat.

 

Andy

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You will only be permitted to store a small quantity (for persnel use).

Unfortunately Andy these issues lie with your local Firearms Licencing, as you will be aware by now although the Firearms and Explosives Law is printed in "Black and White" how your local Authority interprets it is another thing !

 

Good luck......................

 

Rob......................rnixartillery.

 

Agreed - thanks Rob. All I can say is that they've been very helpful so far.

 

Andy

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I hope you have a set of cleaning rods, Black Powder will leave you with a 'bit of a mess' :cheesy:

 

At least with gas, you wouldn't get powder residue, (but it wouldn't be as satisfying as slamming brass up the breech ;))

 

'Chas.'

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According to an email received earlier today, that's apparently what HMS Belfast do. They use yacht starting gun cartridges. I've also heard back from Fort Nelson, who load their own and are happy to let me come and have a chat.

 

Andy

Normaly the toys I play with use a 9mm blank as a primer. Just that on its own can give a satisfactory bang. If I rememebr the normal limit for storage of Black Poweder outside a magazine is 15 kilo. Enough to make your eyes water!:D

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